I don't preach on this subject often, but PETA is right.. you are wrong. You shouldn't feel entitled to decide which lives are valuable and which suffering has weight.
What I saw so far is possibly a little classless but the comparison is apt.
It's been less than a week, the family is still dealing with the fallout. This reminds me of when the NRA showed up in Colorado the day after a school shooting.
Mark
P.S. .. I was thinkin of a catchy phrase along the lines of "Just because something's true, doesn't mean it's right"..... not 100% on how much I like that yet..
I don't preach on this subject often, but PETA is right.. you are wrong. You shouldn't feel entitled to decide which lives are valuable and which suffering has weight.
What I saw so far is possibly a little classless but the comparison is apt.
and there you go thinking that you have the right to decide that HUMAN suffering is worth more than animal.
Do you see how you're wrong now? and how to those of us who know differently- that the possibility of additional suffering to the family is truly regrettable, but does not outweigh the countless equally-valued lives to be saved when they pull a few dozen/hundred over to the vegetarian dark side?
Mark, I'm sure you can tell the forum that I've never jumped down anyone's throat for being a disgusting meat eater. But I can certainly understand why others might and the reality is THEIR argument is much more compelling than the general carnivore stance.
I think you should give PETA the space to believe what they do, and respect their position and, to them, how serious an issue this is.
In their minds they are going to save thousands of lives for one regrettable inconvenience to this family.
Edit: COLE'S NOTES Mark, I could argue that your suggesting that it is horribly timed or inappropriate is roughly equal to you insisting on a bandaid for someone, while 1,000,000 die.
I don't preach on this subject often, but PETA is right.. you are wrong. You shouldn't feel entitled to decide which lives are valuable and which suffering has weight.
What I saw so far is possibly a little classless but the comparison is apt.
More coming when I read the whole article.
Are you fucking kidding? PETA is only surpassed in their tastelessness and stupidity by the Westboro loons.
Human life is, by it's very nature, more "valuable" than animal life. I am not advocating, nor excusing, cruelty in the the food industry. But to equate animal suffering with human suffering is beyond the pale. If you think that the cruelty/suffering that is going on in places like Darfur, or Ethiopia, etc. somehow equates to the cruelty/suffering that occurs in certain areas of the animal "processing" industry, you need clinical help.
I am really hoping that there is an unseen smiley somewhere in that post, Kristy, because that post is just right out to lunch, imo.
and there you go thinking that you have the right to decide that HUMAN suffering is worth more than animal. QFT - Human suffering IS worth more than animal suffering. That is why ther is NO Universal Declaration of Animal Rights
Do you see how you're wrong now? Not in the slightest.
and how to those of us who know differently- that the possibility of additional suffering to the family is truly regrettable, but does not outweigh the countless equally-valued lives to be saved when they pull a few dozen/hundred over to the vegetarian dark side? Please see above.
Mark, I'm sure you can tell the forum that I've never jumped down anyone's throat for being a disgusting meat eater. Eating meat is part of a balanced diet. That you choose to do otherwise is your right, and that of others. So what?
But I can certainly understand why others might and the reality is THEIR argument is much more compelling than the general carnivore stance. That is opinion, and NOT fact. And that is fine, but do not pretend otherwise.
I think you should give PETA the space to believe what they do, and respect their position and, to them, how serious an issue this is. There position is a ludicrous one that puts animal welfare above that of humankind.
In their minds they are going to save thousands of lives for one regrettable inconvenience to this family. Thousands of animal lives, perhaps, and you have NO research to back up even that claim. Sorry, Kristy, people count more than animals. To believe otherwise is simply dumb.
Edit: Ps. Mark, I could argue that your suggesting that it is horribly timed or inappropriate is roughly equal to you insisting on a bandaid for someone, while 1,000,000 die.
Responses in bold. Sorry, Kristy, but on this topic, you are being ridiculous. I am not sure if you are just trying to be provocative, or if you are serious. If the former, it ain't funny. If the latter, it is sad.
Do you see how you're wrong now? and how to those of us who know differently- that the possibility of additional suffering to the family is truly regrettable, but does not outweigh the countless equally-valued lives to be saved when they pull a few dozen/hundred over to the vegetarian dark side?
Mark, I'm sure you can tell the forum that I've never jumped down anyone's throat for being a disgusting meat eater. But I can certainly understand why others might and the reality is THEIR argument is much more compelling than the general carnivore stance.
Do you really think this action will result in fewer animals being raised for slaughter? Really? I truly hope for you that ignorance is bliss.
The arguments of a minority will always be more compelling but it does not mean they are always correct.
I am done in this thread.....you have already digested the kool-aid and there is no going back.
That is opinion, and NOT fact. And that is fine, but do not pretend otherwise.
Says the guy who spouted his own agenda as though it were the word of God.
I'm not an in your face vegetarian normally, but I have a right to my own lifestyle and I have a right to simply show understanding of others (PETA) who believe that they are saving lives.
The reality is that you, imo are leading a despicable lifestyle. For rarely any reason beyond 'it tastes good to me' you routinely kill.
I'll take those nuts who are trying to cause good over the murderers like you any day.
100 years ago we hated 'coloreds women and faggots' as the social norm
Today we still abuse animals, environment etc.
Social change is ongoing, stop being such a redneck.
100 years ago we hated 'coloreds women and faggots' as the social norm
Today we still abuse animals, environment etc.
Social change is ongoing, stop being such a redneck.
So you're equating racism, sexism and homophobia to peoples desire to eat meat? If there are people out there making cows sit at the back of the bus, giving young chickens unwanted pats on their behind or bashing pigs who enjoy their same sex company maybe.....
I know you will never understand it but there are people who spend their lives in the ethical treatment of animals who spend countless hours of hard work, sweat and blood to make those animals quite comfortable while they are alive. Yes, the end result is a humane ending to their life and them serving humans as a main course. I do not berate any who decide not to partake. You may do as you wish.
If there are people out there making cows sit at the back of the bus, giving young chickens unwanted pats on their behind or bashing pigs who enjoy their same sex company maybe.....
those are soul crushing events that destroy a humans' spirit, what happens to the non-organic, non free range animals is more physical. Make jokes if you need to, but it is still wrong.
I may bluff a tight player off a bunch of pots and value bet hands against a loose opponent...
those are soul crushing events that destroy a humans' spirit, what happens to the non-organic, non free range animals is more physical. Make jokes if you need to, but it is still wrong.
I may bluff a tight player off a bunch of pots and value bet hands against a loose opponent...
..both lead to their defeat.
I don't need to make jokes, you did with the original analogy. What experience do you have with non-organic, non free range animals that makes you an expert?
Do you realize that organic animals are not given specialized medical treatment that animals on your so-called "factory farms" are entitled to? Surely you understand that some domesticated animals no longer have the life skills needed to survive in the wild. I'd love to hear your educated views on animal husbandry in our current age.
I will gladly accompany you on some myth-busting expedition but I'm sure you'd prefer to curl up in your world of half truths and lies courtesy PETA.
Ps. Milo, you obv have some baggage here because you spouted words like 'dumb' and 'ridiculous' without realizing that I've simply said I can empathize with the PETA mindset.
We're talking about understanding their ability to inconvenience the family (true, it is regrettable) to save what they value, animal lives.
They're not killing the kid on the bus to make room for animals. They're simply drawing a parallel and trying to make their cause better known.
I'm actually getting a little tired of you lately ..jumping down my throat without actually taking the time to read and try to understand.
I don't need to make jokes, you did with the original analogy. What experience do you have with non-organic, non free range animals that makes you an expert?
Do you realize that organic animals are not given specialized medical treatment that animals on your so-called "factory farms" are entitled to? Surely you understand that some domesticated animals no longer have the life skills needed to survive in the wild. I'd love to hear your educated views on animal husbandry in our current age.
Well I'm sure you're half right, my experience is limited to having my father, aunts and uncles owning dairy farms and having grown up in the country neighboured on all four sides by a hobby farm with stables, a sheep farm and butcher shop, and two other crop farms...I also attended, as you know, a farm school and spent 8 hours a day with farmer spawn and their generally antiquated and nauseating ideas. I spent the first few years of my decade of vegetarianism invested in learning by reading books like 'portrait of a burger as a young calf' though I've become lax of late. I worked with my cousin on a farm where they bred lab rabbits for half a summer.
not a perfect knowledge but again, what does any of that have to do with my EMPATHIZING with PETA's mindset?
I'll ask that you note that I don't care if the cow lives in a penthouse and eats imported grass...I still think killing today is unnecessary and wrong.
I'd also like to point out that I'm getting a trial by fire because others posted a series of hatefulness that I thought I could explain and bridge the gap.
My only position here is that I don't kill to eat because it is an obsolete practice.
I also attended, as you know, a farm school and spent 8 hours a day with farmer spawn and their generally antiquated and nauseating ideas.
As you know I spent my same school days there with those same buffoons.....what you likely don't realize is that most of them left or were pushed out of agriculture because they could not or did not want to live up to the higher standards that are expected of those that raise animals today.
Like I said you're welcome to stick with your ill-conceived notions from PETA if you find it's more comfortable.
I'd also like to point out that I'm getting a trial by fire because others posted a series of hatefulness that I thought I could explain and bridge the gap.
You can defend PETA any way you want. I absolutely do not find everything that they do reprehensible but the instance in the OP is.
My only position here is that I don't kill to eat because it is an obsolete practice.
That is your opinion and your right, and as I said I will not berate you for it.
and that idea is >than yours.
Again an opinion, and opinions are like assholes.....everyone has one.
Now, I'm done.
PS. I hope the Feist/Colbert Reort torrent worked for you.
I love meat but wouldn't eat a steak if I had to:
a) drive a cow for sometimes DAYS, to a slaughter house
b) force it down a chute to the stunning area
c) put a bolt in said cow's head
d) slit it's throat, hang it upside down and cut off it's limbs (sometimes while s/he is still alive.)
However, out of sight, out of mind.
If you like girls who fuck like porn stars in bed, would you still enjoy fucking her if she told you her uncle, dad and grade 6 teacher used to all have a go at her? Maybe, if you are a sick fuck.
Where am I going with this? Dunno.
1) "The world is flat." - "Yep!", "Sure is!" THEN "Fuck, haha, we suck."
2) "Cigarettes are harmless." - "Fuck yeah, look how cool I look!" THEN "Oh shit, our bad."
3) "Why would we listen to Antigone, she's a broad." - "Yeah, her brother does deserve to rot." THEN "Wow, women are equals. Let's let them have the same rights."
4) "My wife must have sex with me whether she wants to or not." - "She married you, she is your whore with no rights now...duh!" THEN "Wait a second, rape still does exist in marriages, we should try and stop that from happening."
(I have now had this page open for an hour and a half while running around...sorry it's so random....haha, no I'm not.)
I'm pretty sure my point is that we ARE constantly evolving. Ideals, social norms etc... do always change. What might seem to be an extreme ideology today could become the thinking of the status quo in a few years. As to which, today's norm is potentially our next generation's, 'what the fuck were they thinking?'
(It's okay to eat fish, because they don't have any feelings.)
Ps. Milo, you obv have some baggage here because you spouted words like 'dumb' and 'ridiculous' without realizing that I've simply said I can empathize with the PETA mindset. And that IS a dumb and ridiculous position, because the PETA mindset is one that elevates animal life to the status of human life. As I said, the two are not equivalent, and you have given no reason for me to think otherwise.
We're talking about understanding their ability to inconvenience the family (true, it is regrettable) to save what they value, animal lives. See above.
They're not killing the kid on the bus to make room for animals. They're simply drawing a parallel and trying to make their cause better known. There is no LOGICAL parallel to be drawn here.
I'm actually getting a little tired of you lately ..jumping down my throat without actually taking the time to read and try to understand. I understand PETA, and their ilk, better than you may think.
It is getting stupid.
PETA are fundamentally a bunch of anti-human extremists, who will do ANYTHING to push their flawed ideology. Quite frankly, I thought you were smarter than this. It saddens me to be proven wrong. I have never tried to deny you your beliefs in any of the discussions we have had here. You are as free to be mistaken in your beliefs as I am. In this instance you are as wrong as I have been in others. The difference is, I can acknowledge flawed reasoning on my part when it occurs. You merely ramp up the attacks. This is not debate, and you are right about one thing. It is stupid. Enjoy your veggies. Tomorrow I plan on having a lovely steak, with a nice Merlot to wash it down. Good night.
Milo if you could stop with the ignorant comments for 5 mins you'd realize that I NEVER said I was member of PETA, just simply that I could imagine the point from which they base their argument.
And after that you might realize then that not once have I placed human rights < animal rights.
In fact I clearly stated my reason for being a vegetarian as simply not needing to kill to survive anymore. Which implies that if it is me or Bessie, the cow is going down.
Although if you meat eaters were capable of respecting someone else's point in the first place, this thread would not exist.
You're talking about tact, PETA is seeing a holocaust. Their thoughts and feelings are valid and in the battle of perceived wrongs here, that must be weighted to respect equals.. you lose.
And I'm just in the middle, making good decisions for myself and saying
"why can't we all just get along"
Edit: since we're on the subject, there is simply no way that you have the right to kill; as a superior species humans have the intelligence and therefore the responsibility to respect and preserve life.
Comments
My opinion of PETA has never been a good one, but this takes it to an all new low.
Hope Canada Customs can keep them out of the country.
CTV Ottawa- 'Hated' church group to protest Tim McLean funeral - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television
These "people" make a strong case for selective euthanasia... youtube them sometime, and just listen to the filth...
I don't hate many people, but I HATE this woman
Mark
What I saw so far is possibly a little classless but the comparison is apt.
More coming when I read the whole article.
But it's HORRIBLY timed / inappropriate
It's been less than a week, the family is still dealing with the fallout. This reminds me of when the NRA showed up in Colorado the day after a school shooting.
Mark
P.S. .. I was thinkin of a catchy phrase along the lines of "Just because something's true, doesn't mean it's right"..... not 100% on how much I like that yet..
wow
Do you see how you're wrong now? and how to those of us who know differently- that the possibility of additional suffering to the family is truly regrettable, but does not outweigh the countless equally-valued lives to be saved when they pull a few dozen/hundred over to the vegetarian dark side?
Mark, I'm sure you can tell the forum that I've never jumped down anyone's throat for being a disgusting meat eater. But I can certainly understand why others might and the reality is THEIR argument is much more compelling than the general carnivore stance.
I think you should give PETA the space to believe what they do, and respect their position and, to them, how serious an issue this is.
In their minds they are going to save thousands of lives for one regrettable inconvenience to this family.
Edit: COLE'S NOTES Mark, I could argue that your suggesting that it is horribly timed or inappropriate is roughly equal to you insisting on a bandaid for someone, while 1,000,000 die.
Are you fucking kidding? PETA is only surpassed in their tastelessness and stupidity by the Westboro loons.
Human life is, by it's very nature, more "valuable" than animal life. I am not advocating, nor excusing, cruelty in the the food industry. But to equate animal suffering with human suffering is beyond the pale. If you think that the cruelty/suffering that is going on in places like Darfur, or Ethiopia, etc. somehow equates to the cruelty/suffering that occurs in certain areas of the animal "processing" industry, you need clinical help.
I am really hoping that there is an unseen smiley somewhere in that post, Kristy, because that post is just right out to lunch, imo.
Responses in bold. Sorry, Kristy, but on this topic, you are being ridiculous. I am not sure if you are just trying to be provocative, or if you are serious. If the former, it ain't funny. If the latter, it is sad.
Do NOT agree with Hate Laws but, in the case of these idiots, I'd look the other way. Scumbags, the lot of them
Do you really think this action will result in fewer animals being raised for slaughter? Really? I truly hope for you that ignorance is bliss.
The arguments of a minority will always be more compelling but it does not mean they are always correct.
I am done in this thread.....you have already digested the kool-aid and there is no going back.
Who cares?
God had them killed for a reason.
Says the guy who spouted his own agenda as though it were the word of God.
I'm not an in your face vegetarian normally, but I have a right to my own lifestyle and I have a right to simply show understanding of others (PETA) who believe that they are saving lives.
The reality is that you, imo are leading a despicable lifestyle. For rarely any reason beyond 'it tastes good to me' you routinely kill.
I'll take those nuts who are trying to cause good over the murderers like you any day.
100 years ago we hated 'coloreds women and faggots' as the social norm
Today we still abuse animals, environment etc.
Social change is ongoing, stop being such a redneck.
Wow, until just this second I thought it was okay to still accept those feelings.
This forum made me a better person.
lol, douche.
So you're equating racism, sexism and homophobia to peoples desire to eat meat? If there are people out there making cows sit at the back of the bus, giving young chickens unwanted pats on their behind or bashing pigs who enjoy their same sex company maybe.....
I know you will never understand it but there are people who spend their lives in the ethical treatment of animals who spend countless hours of hard work, sweat and blood to make those animals quite comfortable while they are alive. Yes, the end result is a humane ending to their life and them serving humans as a main course. I do not berate any who decide not to partake. You may do as you wish.
those are soul crushing events that destroy a humans' spirit, what happens to the non-organic, non free range animals is more physical. Make jokes if you need to, but it is still wrong.
I may bluff a tight player off a bunch of pots and value bet hands against a loose opponent...
..both lead to their defeat.
I don't need to make jokes, you did with the original analogy. What experience do you have with non-organic, non free range animals that makes you an expert?
Do you realize that organic animals are not given specialized medical treatment that animals on your so-called "factory farms" are entitled to? Surely you understand that some domesticated animals no longer have the life skills needed to survive in the wild. I'd love to hear your educated views on animal husbandry in our current age.
I will gladly accompany you on some myth-busting expedition but I'm sure you'd prefer to curl up in your world of half truths and lies courtesy PETA.
We're talking about understanding their ability to inconvenience the family (true, it is regrettable) to save what they value, animal lives.
They're not killing the kid on the bus to make room for animals. They're simply drawing a parallel and trying to make their cause better known.
I'm actually getting a little tired of you lately ..jumping down my throat without actually taking the time to read and try to understand.
It is getting stupid.
Well I'm sure you're half right, my experience is limited to having my father, aunts and uncles owning dairy farms and having grown up in the country neighboured on all four sides by a hobby farm with stables, a sheep farm and butcher shop, and two other crop farms...I also attended, as you know, a farm school and spent 8 hours a day with farmer spawn and their generally antiquated and nauseating ideas. I spent the first few years of my decade of vegetarianism invested in learning by reading books like 'portrait of a burger as a young calf' though I've become lax of late. I worked with my cousin on a farm where they bred lab rabbits for half a summer.
not a perfect knowledge but again, what does any of that have to do with my EMPATHIZING with PETA's mindset?
I'll ask that you note that I don't care if the cow lives in a penthouse and eats imported grass...I still think killing today is unnecessary and wrong.
I'd also like to point out that I'm getting a trial by fire because others posted a series of hatefulness that I thought I could explain and bridge the gap.
My only position here is that I don't kill to eat because it is an obsolete practice.
and that idea is >than yours.
As you know I spent my same school days there with those same buffoons.....what you likely don't realize is that most of them left or were pushed out of agriculture because they could not or did not want to live up to the higher standards that are expected of those that raise animals today.
Like I said you're welcome to stick with your ill-conceived notions from PETA if you find it's more comfortable.
Now, I'm done.
PS. I hope the Feist/Colbert Reort torrent worked for you.
I love meat but wouldn't eat a steak if I had to:
a) drive a cow for sometimes DAYS, to a slaughter house
b) force it down a chute to the stunning area
c) put a bolt in said cow's head
d) slit it's throat, hang it upside down and cut off it's limbs (sometimes while s/he is still alive.)
However, out of sight, out of mind.
If you like girls who fuck like porn stars in bed, would you still enjoy fucking her if she told you her uncle, dad and grade 6 teacher used to all have a go at her? Maybe, if you are a sick fuck.
Where am I going with this? Dunno.
1) "The world is flat." - "Yep!", "Sure is!" THEN "Fuck, haha, we suck."
2) "Cigarettes are harmless." - "Fuck yeah, look how cool I look!" THEN "Oh shit, our bad."
3) "Why would we listen to Antigone, she's a broad." - "Yeah, her brother does deserve to rot." THEN "Wow, women are equals. Let's let them have the same rights."
4) "My wife must have sex with me whether she wants to or not." - "She married you, she is your whore with no rights now...duh!" THEN "Wait a second, rape still does exist in marriages, we should try and stop that from happening."
(I have now had this page open for an hour and a half while running around...sorry it's so random....haha, no I'm not.)
I'm pretty sure my point is that we ARE constantly evolving. Ideals, social norms etc... do always change. What might seem to be an extreme ideology today could become the thinking of the status quo in a few years. As to which, today's norm is potentially our next generation's, 'what the fuck were they thinking?'
(It's okay to eat fish, because they don't have any feelings.)
PETA are fundamentally a bunch of anti-human extremists, who will do ANYTHING to push their flawed ideology. Quite frankly, I thought you were smarter than this. It saddens me to be proven wrong. I have never tried to deny you your beliefs in any of the discussions we have had here. You are as free to be mistaken in your beliefs as I am. In this instance you are as wrong as I have been in others. The difference is, I can acknowledge flawed reasoning on my part when it occurs. You merely ramp up the attacks. This is not debate, and you are right about one thing. It is stupid. Enjoy your veggies. Tomorrow I plan on having a lovely steak, with a nice Merlot to wash it down. Good night.
That is the SLOWEST torrent ever... working on it..50.7% done
Mark
And after that you might realize then that not once have I placed human rights < animal rights.
In fact I clearly stated my reason for being a vegetarian as simply not needing to kill to survive anymore. Which implies that if it is me or Bessie, the cow is going down.
Although if you meat eaters were capable of respecting someone else's point in the first place, this thread would not exist.
You're talking about tact, PETA is seeing a holocaust. Their thoughts and feelings are valid and in the battle of perceived wrongs here, that must be weighted to respect equals.. you lose.
And I'm just in the middle, making good decisions for myself and saying
"why can't we all just get along"
Edit: since we're on the subject, there is simply no way that you have the right to kill; as a superior species humans have the intelligence and therefore the responsibility to respect and preserve life.
and I can't help it if I've got a heavy flow and/or a wide set vagina.
Ps. Welcome back!!
PPS. Why did you watch 'mean girls' diligently enough to quote it here, years later?