wanting to is still not a punishable offense and he clearly states in the conveniently UN-HIGHLIGHTED section that he did not utilize a forward motion.
I'm going to need you to go ahead and try harder than 'nuff said' since it clearly is NOT.
DrTyore:but I thought it was pretty clear that he was contradicting himself
Kristy says:
no he's not
DrTyore says:
not even close to a 'contradiction'
DrTyore says:
100% he is
Kristy says:
no
DrTyore says:
I re-edited and highlighted both parts
again, stating that he has decided to 'go for it' doesn't imply this hand conclusively.
As described he's done nothing wrong...
This is like hating and denouncing bagels because you're anti-semitic
(Not that Mark is opposed to anyone, ever...but you get my point)
My argument here (and I believe I said this earlier) isn't that he DID angle shoot in this instance, but he had INTENDED to.
He clearly questions when his backstory became his intent, and his OP clearly communicates that he and his friend had discussed this "ploy" (which I think a majority of forumers will agree is an angle shoot), and then states that he had the opportunity and decided to <ahem> "Go for it".
The argument 13cards is making (and I agree with), is that in this exact instance, he did NOT angle shoot, not due to his lack of intent, but rather the fact that the other fella in the hand jumped the gun before he could execute. Had the other fellow waited a bit, do I believe the OP would have shot? Yup. Do I think that's wrong? Yup.
I'm clothes-lining you when you get here for wasting my time
Edit: I'd normally offer 2:1 that I get hurt attempting this, but I know that Mark is still recovering from a baseball bat/ass injury from this weekend...so I'm a clear favourite
Congrats on your win SirWatts, I'm surprised you're still slumming it on these boards lol.
Yes he did check, but he bet (call) immediately upon him assuming I was going to raise just because I lifted my chips 1 cm from my stack.
A little more to the story is that this individual was calling out of turn all the time or even calling/throwing his chips exactly at the same time when a raiser does, I'm sure everyone has seen this in limit.
Dr and Kristy hope this odd discussion didn't cause too much drama b/w yourselves I didn't imagine in my wildest dreams that things would get this exciting.
I hear your point Dr. but Kristy has pretty much wrapped up what I would say, so morally and technically is this raise not allowed from a person constantly calling/betting out of turn?
Exclusive of the intent to angle shoot here. Since he had already checked would that decision not be binding and technically he could not change his mind and bet allowing you to raise in the first place?
As I said above, I did not try to angle-shoot the player or even had the intent, all I did was pick up my chips at most 1 CM from my chipstack and the original checker had already threw in his call.
You are right, the other player IS an angle shooter!!!
The other player then put in a call, OUT OF TURN, then cried foul after the fact. Maybe he knew the dealer would rule incorrectly that luckystrike could not raise now. Maybe the player was in collusion with the dealer.
It is SO awesome how clueless a poker manager you are 13Cards. Both the OP and you used the word call. Please tell me what exactly is our poor victim "calling" here? To use the word call, then the OP must have faked him in with a bet. The victim has already checked. Clearly betting, the proper word btw, is illegal here since he has already checked. Please explain to me how the victim can possibly bet, if he has already checked?
I wonder how a player, who has already checked can now throw in a bet if he was not faked into the pot by our angle shooter? Very interesting. Now our angle shooter OP wants to take advantage of his fake by complaining to the dealer that he should be allowed to raise, and our amazing poker room manager, 13Cards states it is in his right to do so? To top it off he actually suggests the victim is somehow colluding with the dealer.
Please name me a sport where faking is not penalized in some way? There is a reason for it - to protect the rights of all the players. But apparently not at Fallsview, nay, at Fallsview angle shooters are supported and encouraged by our illustrious poker room manager.
Try reading the link I provided above and maybe you will learn something about poker and respecting the rights of players.
"Check-raising" a checker. Classic...let's rewrite the rules of poker.
Colluders, grandstanders, show-boaters, slow-rollers and angle shooters, heed the call, you have found poker nirvana and it's name is Fallsview.
Here's where I think all the confusion has come from... the OP needed to include more details regarding the hand in question.
After rereading the OP, I believe that the play is now POST-Flop, and the OP in early position checks, and then the 'villian' checks behind him, and one of the other active players in the hand now bets.... action returns to OP who while grabbing chips to make the call, has the 'villian' throw out his call, out of turn....
Lucky, is that a clearer description of the action in the hand?
I think that is the only way it makes that the person after him "checks" and then "throws out a call"... or I'm wrong and everyone else is right in assuming that Lucky has misused terms.
If you read the original post the corrct way, and I and others read it the incorrect way, kudos to you for your problem solving ability. Please do not continue to insult my job (which is not a poker manager!!). Your repeated and persistent personal attacks of me are uncalled for and bring nothing to the discussions at hand. Thank you.
Hey no worries. I will have to admit that was one of your most even handed responses ever.
I don't like Fallsview. I can make any comments I like about that place. If you take offense to that because you work there and make it personal, then the problem is with you. I don't dislike you, I dislike Fallsview. So you are correct. I should refrain from personal attacks. Sorry. In real life, as opposed to your image online, you obviously must be a very personable fellow to work with the high rollers in the salon privee so kudos to you on your success. It must be very interesting. I read your background story and obviously you have great experience over many years working in casinos. It is useful at times to have an insider posting here. While I probably would never play in one of your satellites I do appreciate you taking the time to post information about the structures etc. I do read those posts.
I believe you called me out first in post #16 and then proceeded to use me in your silly little hand examples which got me going. I can call a truce. Don't quote me and reference my name and I won't either. Done deal.
In real life, as opposed to your image online, you obviously must be a very personable fellow
Yes, I can confirm that, just like other infamous forumers, 13CARDS does not have horns or a pirate eye patch in real life. Next time I see him at the far-from-perfect but still my favourite area casino, I just have to remember to wash after shaking the hand that he just spat on!
OP, to answer your original question: IMO yes this play is wrong at the CNE. IMO it is also wrong at any other place.
Whether or not you can raise depends on the exact action that you didn't really explain. I get what 13Cards is saying and he is right assuming his scenario. However I still don't get how it all went down during your hand.
It was probably smart of you not to push it too far with the dealer. Keep the game friendly and fish are more likely to give you their money.
It was probably smart of you not to push it too far with the dealer. Keep the game friendly and fish are more likely to give you their money.
In other words, always get DrTyore on your table and make sure he wears his ATM hat and make sure that he gets everyone's porn star name, including the dealer. Just don't let him sing.
Comments
wanting to is still not a punishable offense and he clearly states in the conveniently UN-HIGHLIGHTED section that he did not utilize a forward motion.
I'm going to need you to go ahead and try harder than 'nuff said' since it clearly is NOT.
Should probably flip the quote order for more dramatic effect
Say your prayers, eat your vitamins little hulkamaniacs
Mark
DrTyore:but I thought it was pretty clear that he was contradicting himself
Kristy says:
no he's not
DrTyore says:
not even close to a 'contradiction'
DrTyore says:
100% he is
Kristy says:
no
DrTyore says:
I re-edited and highlighted both parts
again, stating that he has decided to 'go for it' doesn't imply this hand conclusively.
As described he's done nothing wrong...
This is like hating and denouncing bagels because you're anti-semitic
(Not that Mark is opposed to anyone, ever...but you get my point)
He clearly questions when his backstory became his intent, and his OP clearly communicates that he and his friend had discussed this "ploy" (which I think a majority of forumers will agree is an angle shoot), and then states that he had the opportunity and decided to <ahem> "Go for it".
The argument 13cards is making (and I agree with), is that in this exact instance, he did NOT angle shoot, not due to his lack of intent, but rather the fact that the other fella in the hand jumped the gun before he could execute. Had the other fellow waited a bit, do I believe the OP would have shot? Yup. Do I think that's wrong? Yup.
Mark
Dude, why didn't you just say so...
I'm clothes-lining you when you get here for wasting my time
Edit: I'd normally offer 2:1 that I get hurt attempting this, but I know that Mark is still recovering from a baseball bat/ass injury from this weekend...so I'm a clear favourite
Yes he did check, but he bet (call) immediately upon him assuming I was going to raise just because I lifted my chips 1 cm from my stack.
A little more to the story is that this individual was calling out of turn all the time or even calling/throwing his chips exactly at the same time when a raiser does, I'm sure everyone has seen this in limit.
Dr and Kristy hope this odd discussion didn't cause too much drama b/w yourselves I didn't imagine in my wildest dreams that things would get this exciting.
I hear your point Dr. but Kristy has pretty much wrapped up what I would say, so morally and technically is this raise not allowed from a person constantly calling/betting out of turn?
the only way your "trick" works is if you act before the guy insta-calling... if he's already checked, he's bound to that.
This would mean that you're not angle shooting, you just don't understand how the game is played.
Mark
It is SO awesome how clueless a poker manager you are 13Cards. Both the OP and you used the word call. Please tell me what exactly is our poor victim "calling" here? To use the word call, then the OP must have faked him in with a bet. The victim has already checked. Clearly betting, the proper word btw, is illegal here since he has already checked. Please explain to me how the victim can possibly bet, if he has already checked?
I wonder how a player, who has already checked can now throw in a bet if he was not faked into the pot by our angle shooter? Very interesting. Now our angle shooter OP wants to take advantage of his fake by complaining to the dealer that he should be allowed to raise, and our amazing poker room manager, 13Cards states it is in his right to do so? To top it off he actually suggests the victim is somehow colluding with the dealer.
Please name me a sport where faking is not penalized in some way? There is a reason for it - to protect the rights of all the players. But apparently not at Fallsview, nay, at Fallsview angle shooters are supported and encouraged by our illustrious poker room manager.
Try reading the link I provided above and maybe you will learn something about poker and respecting the rights of players.
"Check-raising" a checker. Classic...let's rewrite the rules of poker.
Colluders, grandstanders, show-boaters, slow-rollers and angle shooters, heed the call, you have found poker nirvana and it's name is Fallsview.
Can we sticky this thread in the HOF please?
GTA, Kristy and I are still awaiting someone to determine what exactly it takes to make the H.O.F...
so far, no thread has ben good enough.
Here's where I think all the confusion has come from... the OP needed to include more details regarding the hand in question.
After rereading the OP, I believe that the play is now POST-Flop, and the OP in early position checks, and then the 'villian' checks behind him, and one of the other active players in the hand now bets.... action returns to OP who while grabbing chips to make the call, has the 'villian' throw out his call, out of turn....
Lucky, is that a clearer description of the action in the hand?
I think that is the only way it makes that the person after him "checks" and then "throws out a call"... or I'm wrong and everyone else is right in assuming that Lucky has misused terms.
Hey no worries. I will have to admit that was one of your most even handed responses ever.
I don't like Fallsview. I can make any comments I like about that place. If you take offense to that because you work there and make it personal, then the problem is with you. I don't dislike you, I dislike Fallsview. So you are correct. I should refrain from personal attacks. Sorry. In real life, as opposed to your image online, you obviously must be a very personable fellow to work with the high rollers in the salon privee so kudos to you on your success. It must be very interesting. I read your background story and obviously you have great experience over many years working in casinos. It is useful at times to have an insider posting here. While I probably would never play in one of your satellites I do appreciate you taking the time to post information about the structures etc. I do read those posts.
I believe you called me out first in post #16 and then proceeded to use me in your silly little hand examples which got me going. I can call a truce. Don't quote me and reference my name and I won't either. Done deal.
I can't wait for the day that some forumer comes across as a total prick and really DOES have horns or an eye patch....
Maybe I'll go poke Kristy's eye out for some of the newbs...
Mark
I don't know man - that's really a hit/miss life experience.
On one hand:
Or on the other hand....
So I guess I'm on the fence on this one?
Whether or not you can raise depends on the exact action that you didn't really explain. I get what 13Cards is saying and he is right assuming his scenario. However I still don't get how it all went down during your hand.
It was probably smart of you not to push it too far with the dealer. Keep the game friendly and fish are more likely to give you their money.
In other words, always get DrTyore on your table and make sure he wears his ATM hat and make sure that he gets everyone's porn star name, including the dealer. Just don't let him sing.