Was this play wrong at the CNE?
Just a quick comment on CNE, although the high rake, I feel the game is beatable, been doing ok on my last 2 visits based on making some strong hands and always getting callers to the river.
Anyhow my friend and I joked about doing this at the CNE where people always auto call very quickly when they see someone raising, so the joke was to pretend to raise an original checker with the hand motion of throwing chips but not to actually throw anything in, once the auto-caller throws their chips in hastily you can raise them since their chips are across the line.
So I actually got a chance to do the above and decided to go for it, I actually didn't even really "trick" the original checker, once I picked up the chips to throw in, he had already threw his chips in for a call so I re-raised him on the spot.
This made the original checker go ape-sh** and was swearing at me up and down "don't be a fu***n idiot" , I very calmly told the dealer that his chips were already thrown in before I even did anything. The dealer, obviously an inexperienced CNE dealer sided with the checker in saying I can't raise him because his intent was just to call.
In the end I accepted the "call" since this dude was irate and was 3x my size and to be honest I didn't want any present or future problems.
Anyway, chips across the line cannot be pulled back, however can it be raised in this situation?
In retrospect I shouldn't have tried this move at the CNE where it's common knowledge that the dealers are not full time dealers and are just there for part time work.
Anyhow my friend and I joked about doing this at the CNE where people always auto call very quickly when they see someone raising, so the joke was to pretend to raise an original checker with the hand motion of throwing chips but not to actually throw anything in, once the auto-caller throws their chips in hastily you can raise them since their chips are across the line.
So I actually got a chance to do the above and decided to go for it, I actually didn't even really "trick" the original checker, once I picked up the chips to throw in, he had already threw his chips in for a call so I re-raised him on the spot.
This made the original checker go ape-sh** and was swearing at me up and down "don't be a fu***n idiot" , I very calmly told the dealer that his chips were already thrown in before I even did anything. The dealer, obviously an inexperienced CNE dealer sided with the checker in saying I can't raise him because his intent was just to call.
In the end I accepted the "call" since this dude was irate and was 3x my size and to be honest I didn't want any present or future problems.
Anyway, chips across the line cannot be pulled back, however can it be raised in this situation?
In retrospect I shouldn't have tried this move at the CNE where it's common knowledge that the dealers are not full time dealers and are just there for part time work.
Comments
Seneca Poker room rules:
21. A player miscalling a hand with the intent to cause another player to act on their hand risks forfeiture of the pot and/or expulsion from the Poker Room.
An 'experienced' dealer would also take a very long time to call for security should your opponent choose to pound the crap out of you.
My rant was probably too long but wanted to explain it the best I could.
As I said above, I did not try to angle-shoot the player or even had the intent, all I did was pick up my chips at most 1 CM from my chipstack and the original checker had already threw in his call.
Maybe at friend's house its fine to just call but why not raise someone betting out of turn at a b&m?
Card Player Magazine - Thou Shalt Not Bet Out of Turn by Tom McEvoy
Permitting that crap to go on is what slows the game down to 10 hands per hour because everyone is afraid to bet 'out of turn'.
At least your comments will concentrate all the angle shooters at your facility. Thank you.
OP did not angle shoot because he did not get to the point of putting - or pretending to put - his chips in (another forward motion debate?). However, given the "clever plan" that the OP has detailed....
You're aiming to angle shoot.. that's bullshit, don't do it.
Mark
Agreed.
Just play the game, you already said the game is very beatable.
If you make the motion the bet can be considered binding. You do not need to throw the chips. I've seen this where someone checked with a chip in his hand and it was ruled a bet.
The "inexperienced dealer" made a ruling in the "Best Interest of the Game".
Pretty sad that you need to angle-shoot at the CNE game to win.
QFT
This should be the #1 priority in all actions / decisions by players dealers, floors, etc etc..
Mark
Well maybe not in the poker room. But in the parking lot LATER?
DIE ANGLE SHOOTER DIE!
You can't possible side with the OP here, can you 13? His post clearly stated that he and his friend were going to PURPOSEFULLY use tactics like that in this game. They got a weak dealer and choose their spot to make the mover very well, and although I would agree with you the dealer is correct here, the intent of the OP is clear.
The rest of you are being tools. BTW I'm not even that upset if luckystrike KNEW 100% that touching his chips would elicit the premature 'call' and then intended to c/r his opponent. As long as there is no forward motion it is his opponents fault for being a fucking moron...just like the dumb ass who doesn't use a card protector and then whines when the dealer accidentally mucks his hands...
This game is about taking adv. of idiots in preset ways, Luckystrike did NOT step outside the allowable specifics in this instance.
Ps. Stop shitting down n00b's throats, we need fresh blood at ALL stages of learning.
EDIT: I am pretty excited by the thought that some of you may actually believe for a second that DrTyore would be this much of an asshole
With love,
Kristy Sea
xoxoxox
AJ, as 13 has shown time and time again, he does not give a shit about the best interests of the game, but rather, the best interests of his ego. Which even ruling makes him look like he has the most power is the correct one in his twisted mind.
Once you understand that being a floor is a complete mental jerk-off session to the guy, his stance makes sense.
Okay 13 'fess up. You use this place to vent your frustrations that build up in the pit, don't you? It's the only read that makes sense. Either that or you really are a twit.
Oh, and if the OP tried that at my home game, we'd take him out back, strip him down, cover his genitalia with syrup, and tie him down to the anthill.
Oh, and Kristy/Mark? Wanting to angle shoot may not be punishable, but clearly the OP was looking to take the shot at it. Not someone I would want at my game.
Luckystrike's original plan was to pretend to throw chips, which is angle shooting and SHOULD NOT BE DONE.
If I have pocket aces and raise and get two callers and I am now second to act. 1st player bets and I pick up chips to contemplate a call or raise and the 3rd player calls before I decide. Am I angle shooting here???????? I do not think so as the 3rd player did not wait for my action.
In the OP, the simplest explaination is that the villian who called out of turn was merely trying to keep the game moving. In your overly paranoid theory, he's an angleshooter attempting to bend the rules for his benefit in an overly elaborate manner.
OP, leave out the part about your 'plans' and just say what happened. then you might get a bit more support. that assumes your version of the story is actually true. seeing as your target was very upset with you, i tend to think you changed some of the more salient details.
p.s. any 'play' at cne is wrong.
Yes I should have left out the backstory but didn't want to edit any of my posts so people could see them in its originality.
Anyhow I'm not sure how my backstory became my actual intention? I would never try to angle shoot as I was saying I "joked" to a friend about it but never had the intention as I personally feel that it would be too "hollywood" as in pretending to be on wpt/wsop or something.
The backstory was more for irony, as I was joking with my friend how CNE player seem to auto-call or call out of turn then it acutally happen right on my first hand after discussion.
Just to re-iterate as moose/bbz (troll masters) have some difficulty reading "clearly" I merely just picked up the chips 1 cm from my stack, no hand motion, no drama or no itention.
13_Cards got it right on the money on understanding what I was saying, unfortunaltey the trolls decided to do some selected reading ie. Moose.
So to get back to the original question, can a raise be made to a person originally checking but calling out of turn before a raise has even be made?
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Nuff said
Mark