This will be my final post on this thread.
Tibet is NOT China. Tibet declared independence in 1912, after the fall of the Qing dynasty, and remained a de facto sovereign state for approximately 40 years.
After the Communists took power in China they invaded Tibet and imposed their will on it's people. They would have liked to do the same thing to The Republic of China but dare not, lest the United States get involved. The Republic of China (Taiwan) IS an independent country, so I do not understand your point there, but that is nothing new. You made an earlier reference to Quebec, and the independence movement there. Not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Quebec FREELY chose to JOIN Canada, it was not invaded by a foreign power and subjugated like Tibet was. If Quebec ever does vote for independence, there would be a negotiation over terms of the separation. Tibetans have ALWAYS maintained their desire to have their country for themselves, but The People's Republic of China ruthlessly suppresses ANY protest within Tibet's borders. The PRC is currently involved in a smear campaign against the Dalai Lama, claiming that the Nobel Peace Prize winner is fomenting the violence and promoting terrorism when, via multiple news organizations, he has called repeatedly for an end to the violence on BOTH sides.
It was nice to see in the paper today that school children from all over Beijing were in Tianenmen (sp?) Square to see the Olympic Torch relay. I wonder if they will ever be told by their government that, the last time this many students were on the square, hundreds (thousands?) were machine-gunned to death by government troops. Or was CNN just "faking" that as well?
Sorry, Chuckie, but if I am to choose between a Nobel Peace Prize winner and a government that denies it's own population the rights enshrined in the U.N's Universal Declaration of Human Rights (written by a Canadian), I'm picking the guy in the Saffron robes. You have a good day.
They abuse our own capitalism to their own advantage (which is smart of them to be honest) but what it creates is an illusion of grandeur where 5-10% of the country lives with all the money and everyone else is piss poor. AKA Africa.
That's not illusion, that's Pareto's Theory. 80% of a country's wealth is controlled by 20% of its population. It can be said of any and all countries, NOT just China and the continent of Africa.
What makes China the black sheep is its history of human rights (or lack thereof) and its insistent badgering of its people against basic freedoms that most countries hold dear.
I absolutely agree with you that China has perfected its manipulation of western greed, but its about time China started to grant basic rights and freedoms to its population, which I thought was the purpose of this thread.
Comparing them to ANY civilization, past or present, is redundant. China is heading for a civil war very soon yet again, and this time, it could cost them a lot more than it ever did in the past.
Tibet is NOT China. Tibet declared independence in 1912, after the fall of the Qing dynasty,
any link with facts on this?
I have never heard that,
who declared independence? any election? how is that legit?
Mogolia had election, so their seperation is Legit, where is Tibet's ??? MILO,it's your last post, but I think you should back up your statement.
snape on Human right mask, then madeup stuff?
Don't give me that BS about Canada would let quebec go, if they lost that election.
I know for a Fact, Canadian Troops were sent to Quebec Fully ARMED.
they sent at the night of election. they went it quietly and they leave quitely after we won the election.
I was in the Canadian Army for two year.
Canadian Army is not allow to carry live weapon outside army base.
So take the FULLY ARMED part very seriously.
Canadian army is not like Chinese Army, we have standard.
You really amaze me? Tibet is been in China for Thousand Years, but JUST BECAUSE SOME WHITE DUE SAY, TIBET IS NEW COUNTRY FOR 40 YEARS, AND TIBET IS NEW COUNTRY?
I absolutely agree with you that China has perfected its manipulation of western greed, but its about time China started to grant basic rights and freedoms to its population, which I thought was the purpose of this thread..
yes, but i am saying that china is not ready for that yet. when 85% of people are educated, then they are ready. here is an true story: My First time in China i was in train station, and lining up for my train. this due, keep gaying me.(he lineup behind me, and basically there no room between him and me) I push him back, he gaying me again. so i got fed up, and call the security. they came, and tell that due, keep some room between him and me. that due is a freedom fighter, he fight for his rights to gaying people. Train station security officer show him who's the boss. Later on i found out because alot of poeple like to cut in line (lack of education, of course) when people line up, they kept no room for another to cut in. IF a sociality cannot do a sample task of lining up, and have to use GAYING as method to avoid people cut in line. they are not ready yet for human rights and freedom.
For Christ's sake Chuckie, have you ever heard of Google? Look there for Tibet's independence declaration. I'm not here to make your arguments FOR YOU.
As for your allegations about sending troops into Quebec on the night of the referendum, I will call shenanigans. Why do I think you're full of shit on this? Because it is not likely that a large scale troop movement like you describe would occur without someone seeing it and asking questions. We're allowed to do that here you know. Also, there are already regiments BASED in Quebec. If you really were in the Canadian Forces, you should know that. As for not being allowed to have live rounds off base, that too is BS. My Reserve Reg't (Lorne Scots PD & H Regiment) has the freedom of the city in Brampton, Georgetown, and Oakville. That means that they ARE allowed to do EXACTLY that.
I can back up my statements, can you? I CAN state, and support with evidence, the fact that China violates at least 20 of the 30 Articles in the U.N.'s Universal Declaration on Human Rights with regard to it's own citizens, let alone the citizens of Tibet. Graham would probably ban me for a post that long, though.
I cannot believe you would be so blatantly stupid/racist as to suggest that a given people are "not ready" for freedom and human rights. That sort of attitude is disgusting. You are what, in the post WW2 years, would have been termed a "Good German". And if I get banned for that comment, so be it. You have graduated to my "IGNORE" list.
For Christ's sake Chuckie, have you ever heard of Google? Look there for Tibet's independence declaration. I'm not here to make your arguments FOR YOU.
As for your allegations about sending troops into Quebec on the night of the referendum, I will call shenanigans. Why do I think you're full of shit on this? Because it is not likely that a large scale troop movement like you describe would occur without someone seeing it and asking questions. We're allowed to do that here you know. Also, there are already regiments BASED in Quebec. If you really were in the Canadian Forces, you should know that. As for not being allowed to have live rounds off base, that too is BS. My Reserve Reg't (Lorne Scots PD & H Regiment) has the freedom of the city in Brampton, Georgetown, and Oakville. That means that they ARE allowed to do EXACTLY that.
I can back up my statements, can you? I CAN state, and support with evidence, the fact that China violates at least 20 of the 30 Articles in the U.N.'s Universal Declaration on Human Rights with regard to it's own citizens, let alone the citizens of Tibet. Graham would probably ban me for a post that long, though.
I cannot believe you would be so blatantly stupid/racist as to suggest that a given people are "not ready" for freedom and human rights. That sort of attitude is disgusting. You are what, in the post WW2 years, would have been termed a "Good German". And if I get banned for that comment, so be it. You have graduated to my "IGNORE" list.
1. i google it already
just pro-tibet independance website, that provide no evidence of Declaration of Independance.
like all declaration, there is a document, which is sign by alot of important people.
Dali Lama is a regious leader, by he does not have of any sort of power to claim any land or anything.
2. Canadian government already open admit it, and appology for it.
you can call shenanigans, but they already admit it. maybe you should learn google.
3. I am not sure where you are coming from, From my understanding, It's not allow.
that is why after live round shooting, they took back all ammo at the shooting range, and then sent troops back to base.
maybe things have change, my time was 1997-1999. when did you goes into reserve. I'm in infantry, Machine gunner. operate 50 Cal. and C6.
4. i didn't ask you to backup china violate human rights, that is already agree. i never say they are good government. i ask you to backup Tibet declare independance in 1912. word of some monk, or white due does not count.
Mogolia used to be part of china
they have election, and Declaration of independance is sign by Mogolia/china with witness sign by USA and RUSSIA.
that piece of Document for Tibet. BACK THAT UP.
why are you change subject, I Clear ask you to backup Tibet declaration of indepandance, why change it china human right?
FEAR of been wrong?
5. if you ever take a vacation to china, you'll know what i'm talking about.
I understand where you coming from.
Canada is nice country with nice people. you think rest the world is the same.
Canada is nice because it's fill with hard working educated people.
that make a big difference.
EDIT: i was out of military for a while
but what does your regiment do? do you go on field excise at all?
when they sent us from CFB to another CFB.
they ship us by bus (grey hound type of bus), how would anybody could of notice of troops movement?
As a Quebec citizen I can attest that troops DID come in Quebec the night of the election... although the *why* has never really been published I seriously doubt it's to stop the independance but to protect the prople , both residents from quebec and those who would have liked to leave after the said independance.
They also came when the FLQ kidnaped that dude .. ehh laviolette I think... and nothing happended there again and why is that?
Simple... we're a civilized country who treats the people that live in it like PEOPLE.
Thanks IG, I had not found any ref. for that on-line. I did know that DND ordered the CF-18's stationed at Bagotville to fly out of the province prior to the referendum. The FLQ crisis you mentioned was the kidnapping of James Cross (British Trade envoy), and Pierre LaPorte. LaPorte was later found murdered in the trunk of a car.
Comments
Tibet is NOT China. Tibet declared independence in 1912, after the fall of the Qing dynasty, and remained a de facto sovereign state for approximately 40 years.
After the Communists took power in China they invaded Tibet and imposed their will on it's people. They would have liked to do the same thing to The Republic of China but dare not, lest the United States get involved. The Republic of China (Taiwan) IS an independent country, so I do not understand your point there, but that is nothing new. You made an earlier reference to Quebec, and the independence movement there. Not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Quebec FREELY chose to JOIN Canada, it was not invaded by a foreign power and subjugated like Tibet was. If Quebec ever does vote for independence, there would be a negotiation over terms of the separation. Tibetans have ALWAYS maintained their desire to have their country for themselves, but The People's Republic of China ruthlessly suppresses ANY protest within Tibet's borders. The PRC is currently involved in a smear campaign against the Dalai Lama, claiming that the Nobel Peace Prize winner is fomenting the violence and promoting terrorism when, via multiple news organizations, he has called repeatedly for an end to the violence on BOTH sides.
It was nice to see in the paper today that school children from all over Beijing were in Tianenmen (sp?) Square to see the Olympic Torch relay. I wonder if they will ever be told by their government that, the last time this many students were on the square, hundreds (thousands?) were machine-gunned to death by government troops. Or was CNN just "faking" that as well?
Sorry, Chuckie, but if I am to choose between a Nobel Peace Prize winner and a government that denies it's own population the rights enshrined in the U.N's Universal Declaration of Human Rights (written by a Canadian), I'm picking the guy in the Saffron robes. You have a good day.
FREE TIBET !!!
That's not illusion, that's Pareto's Theory. 80% of a country's wealth is controlled by 20% of its population. It can be said of any and all countries, NOT just China and the continent of Africa.
What makes China the black sheep is its history of human rights (or lack thereof) and its insistent badgering of its people against basic freedoms that most countries hold dear.
I absolutely agree with you that China has perfected its manipulation of western greed, but its about time China started to grant basic rights and freedoms to its population, which I thought was the purpose of this thread.
Comparing them to ANY civilization, past or present, is redundant. China is heading for a civil war very soon yet again, and this time, it could cost them a lot more than it ever did in the past.
I have never heard that,
who declared independence? any election? how is that legit?
Mogolia had election, so their seperation is Legit, where is Tibet's ???
MILO,it's your last post, but I think you should back up your statement.
snape on Human right mask, then madeup stuff?
Don't give me that BS about Canada would let quebec go, if they lost that election.
I know for a Fact, Canadian Troops were sent to Quebec Fully ARMED.
they sent at the night of election. they went it quietly and they leave quitely after we won the election.
I was in the Canadian Army for two year.
Canadian Army is not allow to carry live weapon outside army base.
So take the FULLY ARMED part very seriously.
Canadian army is not like Chinese Army, we have standard.
You really amaze me?
Tibet is been in China for Thousand Years, but JUST BECAUSE SOME WHITE DUE SAY, TIBET IS NEW COUNTRY FOR 40 YEARS, AND TIBET IS NEW COUNTRY?
when 85% of people are educated, then they are ready.
here is an true story:
My First time in China
i was in train station, and lining up for my train.
this due, keep gaying me.(he lineup behind me, and basically there no room between him and me)
I push him back, he gaying me again.
so i got fed up, and call the security.
they came, and tell that due, keep some room between him and me.
that due is a freedom fighter, he fight for his rights to gaying people.
Train station security officer show him who's the boss.
Later on i found out
because alot of poeple like to cut in line (lack of education, of course) when people line up, they kept no room for another to cut in.
IF a sociality cannot do a sample task of lining up, and have to use GAYING as method to avoid people cut in line.
they are not ready yet for human rights and freedom.
As for your allegations about sending troops into Quebec on the night of the referendum, I will call shenanigans. Why do I think you're full of shit on this? Because it is not likely that a large scale troop movement like you describe would occur without someone seeing it and asking questions. We're allowed to do that here you know. Also, there are already regiments BASED in Quebec. If you really were in the Canadian Forces, you should know that. As for not being allowed to have live rounds off base, that too is BS. My Reserve Reg't (Lorne Scots PD & H Regiment) has the freedom of the city in Brampton, Georgetown, and Oakville. That means that they ARE allowed to do EXACTLY that.
I can back up my statements, can you? I CAN state, and support with evidence, the fact that China violates at least 20 of the 30 Articles in the U.N.'s Universal Declaration on Human Rights with regard to it's own citizens, let alone the citizens of Tibet. Graham would probably ban me for a post that long, though.
I cannot believe you would be so blatantly stupid/racist as to suggest that a given people are "not ready" for freedom and human rights. That sort of attitude is disgusting. You are what, in the post WW2 years, would have been termed a "Good German". And if I get banned for that comment, so be it. You have graduated to my "IGNORE" list.
just pro-tibet independance website, that provide no evidence of Declaration of Independance.
like all declaration, there is a document, which is sign by alot of important people.
Dali Lama is a regious leader, by he does not have of any sort of power to claim any land or anything.
2. Canadian government already open admit it, and appology for it.
you can call shenanigans, but they already admit it. maybe you should learn google.
3. I am not sure where you are coming from, From my understanding, It's not allow.
that is why after live round shooting, they took back all ammo at the shooting range, and then sent troops back to base.
maybe things have change, my time was 1997-1999. when did you goes into reserve. I'm in infantry, Machine gunner. operate 50 Cal. and C6.
4. i didn't ask you to backup china violate human rights, that is already agree. i never say they are good government.
i ask you to backup Tibet declare independance in 1912.
word of some monk, or white due does not count.
Mogolia used to be part of china
they have election, and Declaration of independance is sign by Mogolia/china with witness sign by USA and RUSSIA.
that piece of Document for Tibet. BACK THAT UP.
why are you change subject, I Clear ask you to backup Tibet declaration of indepandance, why change it china human right?
FEAR of been wrong?
5. if you ever take a vacation to china, you'll know what i'm talking about.
I understand where you coming from.
Canada is nice country with nice people. you think rest the world is the same.
Canada is nice because it's fill with hard working educated people.
that make a big difference.
EDIT: i was out of military for a while
but what does your regiment do? do you go on field excise at all?
when they sent us from CFB to another CFB.
they ship us by bus (grey hound type of bus), how would anybody could of notice of troops movement?
They also came when the FLQ kidnaped that dude .. ehh laviolette I think... and nothing happended there again and why is that?
Simple... we're a civilized country who treats the people that live in it like PEOPLE.