Should we boycott the Olympics?
I posted awhile ago about the problems with China, and question why we would support the Olympics in this country. I can find the original post but it had to do more with the past and what happened in Tiananmen Square.
The recent events during the past two weeks only confirm that China is a country with no regard for human life. Part of the conditions in getting the Olympics was that they would change and open up and allow for more individualism, freedom of expression and thought. They are nothing more murderous dictatorship. They are already imposing censorship on media outlets and it will only get worse. See the 2 links below
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/business/media/24square.html?ref=business
Tibet: China blocks YouTube, protests spread, bloggers react - Boing Boing
Why are we involved?
Prophet 22
The recent events during the past two weeks only confirm that China is a country with no regard for human life. Part of the conditions in getting the Olympics was that they would change and open up and allow for more individualism, freedom of expression and thought. They are nothing more murderous dictatorship. They are already imposing censorship on media outlets and it will only get worse. See the 2 links below
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/business/media/24square.html?ref=business
Tibet: China blocks YouTube, protests spread, bloggers react - Boing Boing
Why are we involved?
Prophet 22
Comments
Because they cheap labour, consume our natural resources and will be/are the next world super-power.
I have to give China credit, for a country thats been around for a billion years and mistreats most of it's population, its done a pretty good job at getting it's shit together to make itself presentable to the world.
I'm curous. What do you think a boycott will achieve in the long-term dream of westernizing China? I think most people see this as a first-step down that road.
While I agree that China's history is not geared to human rights, I don't think boycotting the Olympics will do a damn bit of good whatsoever. The Olympics are for the atheletes after all, and personally, I see no reason for politics to be involved whatsoever. Unfortunate truth is, though, that politics are a MAJOR player in the games, no matter where they are being held.
Should we boycott the Olympics because of the host country's refusal to accept what the rest of the world deems as respectable and honourable? No.
Should China be held accountable for their recent/past policies and convictions? Yes, absolutely, but do it another arena. Boycotting the Olympics won't do anything to change China, only punish the players, and the players are the most innocent participants in this ordeal.
I would much rather see the IOC ban Chinese participants to ALL future games until they change their policies.
I agree with this.
I also see where you're coming from 22. I'm not an expert on international politics, but I have worked a lot with Amnesty International as a volunteer, so I'm pretty up to speed on China's human rights record.
My understanding is that a boycott will rob the athletes of the games and for the most part have zero of the desired effect of forcing China to change. They are too self sustaining, and powerful for it to be effective.
When you consider a country like Burma(myanmar) with no military might, and nothing of any great trade value(except maybe teak) the US and other influential nations are happy to support sanctions, and boycott's. Student boycott's of Pepsi, and Columbia sportswear's operations in that country also had an effect.
We simply can't put that kind of pressure on them I don't think.
Like I said, I'm certainly no expert though. Good discussion.
Personally... I'd boycott even if it doesn't change anything but maybe it'll show them that the world care...
Also... China is a growing power because we let them be by using them to produce everything we need cheaply... if the US/Can and Europe country decide that we buy our stuff elsewhere I don't think it'll stay a world power for long.
Plus... with their politic on Taiwan we have a cute 2nd Cold War in making.
Ever wonder why we kiss India's ass but try to stick it to Pakistan? same thing.
Well that and the fact that India and Pakistan has nukes.
the athletes? they can do what they want.
P.S. I just reread what AJ said, and he basically said what I wanted to say...but better.
Todays Olympics is a contest between the pharmacists, rules cheaters and bribers.
Boycotting the olympics will have little impact on China.
We will continue to buy their cheap goods.
“its (china) done a pretty good job at getting it's shit together to make itself presentable to the world”. BBC Z
For whatever reason, I think the world has turned a blind eye to what goes on over there. BBC Z is right they (china) are a superpower right now. And he is also right that a boycott would do nothing to the westernization of China.
Soldiers in the Chinese Military?
Available for military service 342,956,265 males, age 18–49 (2005 est.), 324,701,244 females, age 18–49 (2005 est.)
Fit for military service 281,240,272 males, age 18–49 (2005 est.), 269,025,517 females, age 18–49 (2005 est.)
Reaching military age annually 13,186,433 males (2005 est.),
12,298,149 females (2005 est.)
Active personnel 2,250,000
Reserve personnel 800,000
Paramilitary: 3,969,000
Total: 7,024,000
1980 Summer Olympics boycott
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Though the Games have aimed to be an arena free of politics, the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan spurred United States President Jimmy Carter to issue an ultimatum that the United States would boycott the Moscow Olympics if Soviet troops had not withdrawn from the country by 12:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time on February 20, 1980; the official announcement confirming the boycott was made on March 21.
The United States was joined in the boycott by some other populous countries - including Japan, West Germany, China and Canada.
BRUSSELS, BELGIUM -- The European Union yesterday urged China to handle the uprising in Tibet with restraint and stay clear of violence, but again ruled out a full boycott of the Beijing Olympics.
The Belgian government, however, did not rule out a boycott if the situation in Tibet worsened, and some members of the European Parliament called on EU leaders to stay away from opening and closing ceremonies of the Games.
Big Thinkers
I don’t think boycotting the games is fair to the athletes either. But the world needs to stand up and be heard. Maybe a boycott of the opening and closing ceremony. Trade embargo. Every dollar we spend goes into a government that we are diametrically opposed too.
If the European Union ever got it’s act together and everyone else who boycotted the 1980 games were to boycott these games, China would take a big hit. Now I am not an economist so I have no idea how it would effect us if they did cut off trade with us, but something big would happen. I just hope it isn’t WWW III.
Prophet 22
US invades Iraq and kills 600,000 people == ???
It would just deter athletes in the future from training for the Olympics if that happens.
China has been a threat for decades. Now they hold the cards with so much trade happening with them by countries that have 'higher moral values'. Want China to improve? Stop trade!!
But guess who feels THAT impact? The consumer. There's a reason why we buy offshore product, and it isn't quality or because they won more gold medals. It's because its cheap. Stop the trade, all the prices go up overnight.
I still hold the belief that the ONLY way for China to change is for an organization like the IOC to put their foot down and say shape up, or you'll not participate.
Just because the IOC is just as corrupt as the Chinese gov't doesn't mean that China would listen to them..
Its meant as wishful thinking more than a suggestion. NO WAY the IOC would ban China from the events. Just saying that maybe if they grew a pair of balls and insisted that only countries that support their population rather than enslave it should participate.
2) Things in Tibet is not what you see on TV here.
I have friend that frequent Tibet for business.
He told me. it's like 20% uprising (want to use Olympics as more bargin chip)
80% bandit that take advantage of this situation.
Kinda like what happen to L.A city, after a blackguy got beatup by white cops.
4)Tibet is part of China over 1000 years
a) where does chinese invade tibet 50 years ago come from???
b) as far i know, Commie China took tibet from nationalist china 50 years ago.
5) I think all of you should pay more attention on Native here.
Compare to government of Canadian/USA treating the natives, I think chinese government WON. so much for human rights.
under chinese government
Living standard raise 20x
education level is up 90%
all the ancient treasure are kept in one peice, with constant maintainese.
Under Canadian/USA government
how much did Native income raise? more like sliding.
education level of the native? (it's not comparable with rest of Canada)
you want me to go on?
The preceding post was brought to you by the Ministry of Tourism, People's Democratic Republic of China.
One question Chuckie: ARE YOU FOR REAL?!?
You want to compare, fine. Here's a comparison for you:
Aboriginal Canadians protest against government inaction regarding (pick your issue) by flouting the law of the land, threatening the livelihoods of many, and occasionally making threats against lives and property. Result: Quicker resolution to said problem, usually in a more favorable position than previously offered. NO, or VERY FEW, legal repercussions.
Tibetan citizens protest against an occupying government, NOT of their choosing, in an effort to draw the world's attention to their plight. Result: Brutal military repression, involving body counts in the hundreds for protestors, show trials (occasionally) where the outcome is predetermined. Foreign journalists prevented from reporting on the situation by the military rulers in an effort to prevent this sort of information from coming to light.
This is your comparison?!? Give your head a shake
chinese is not 1 race, chinese contain 56 race which included tibetan.
saying tibetan is not chinese, is like saying Quebec is not Canadian.
I agree on against an occupying government, not of their choosing.
but that goes for entire China(included tibet).
with help of soviet, commie china won the war against libral china....what can rest of chinese do????
2)if you need anymore facts, check the British History. specially on British Far East indian group.
They fought serval war against china on Tibet. (2-3 hundred years ago)
Chinese did not just take Tibet 50 years ago.
Here an example, that what you think you know by watching tv.
CNN edit the photo, so they can make a human right story for you.
By the way, those bandit, they don't even live in Tibet, because chinese government is so bad, they kick out, anybody with different voice out of china.
they all come back at once for a reason: this is a well planned attack.
I am NOT from China.
I am born in Taiwan, and raise in Toronto
I have alot white friends, so i know where you are coming from.
most your knowledge on Tibet is basically he say she say.
i use to think like you, until i visit china for the first time.
they not ready for our system yet. not for another 50-100 year.
1 billion poeple, about 40% are well education.
the rest are just.......... you give them human rights........Trouble.
they are not educated, doesn't make them dumb, they'll take fully advantage of the system.
here is a comparison.
In Canada
if you commite a crime, and 2 cops come after you. period
In China
villiger commite a crime in the big city, they flee back to the small village.
cops has 2 option.
1) small team, go in the dark, and kinap him, bring him back to city for justice
2) bring big team of cops, has to out number the villiage by 2:1.
then arrest the criminal. otherwise villiagers will team up and kill the cops. this is to protect one of their own.
It's hard to believe, but it's there.
villiagers contain 60% of the 1 billion, most of them are farmers, no education, live in very isolated location. and very poor. who built the cheap stuff we buy, that often crap out.
Do you seriously believe what you just wrote? If so, those poor bastards in the Chinese village aren't the only ones in need of an education. Good Lord.
Tibet people doesn't get mistreat by chinese government.
why?
ALL CHINESE IN CHINA GET THE SAME TREATMENT. you forget about the students at June 4?
so they been treat equally like the rest of people in China.
i don't think you can say the same for aboriginal, they are not been treat equally like the rest of canadian citizen.
you may think they been treat too good, but majority of native don't think so.
also, if you compare
Tibet poeple vs Native in term of in Job, income, education. i'm pretty sure native has the lead 10 years ago.
there is basically no improve on aboriginal situation, and living standard, unless they use threating force to get government to treat them right.
The picuture, if you see on the LEFT side, where CNN (western media) modify the picture, if they really think they are right, why CHEAT?
You are under the impression that those protester live in China?
i call them bandit, because they don't live in China, they sneak into china illegally to do this.
YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOW BETTER, AS BRUTAL AS CHINESE GOVERNMENT, THEY ALREADY KICKER OUT ALL THE RESISTANCE.
IE. DALA LAMA AND IT'S FOLLOWER.
Liberal Chinese government, (TAIWAN)
they are not the locals, and while you are supporting them, the REAL HARD WORKING TIBET PEOPLE ARE GETTING THEIR STORE ROB, GETTING KILL by those bandit.
PEOPLE THROW ROCK AT MILITARY, AND MILITARY SHOOT BACK, DOES NOT LEAD TO ALOT OF RETAIL OUTLET BROKEN IN.
DOES NOT LEAD TO RETAIL STORE OWNERS DIED, TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR LIFE SAVING (GOODS IN THE STORE)
THIS IS NOT PROTESTING, THIS IS BANDIT ROBBING IN DAY LIGHT.
this is something you have to exprience yourself.
i take you never been to asia
so ideal does not equal reality.
you are thinking asia = North american
but they are still 100 year behind here.
(except for Japan, Korean,HK, taiwan)
once you visited china, it does take long for you to notice, who are the villiagers, and you'll know what i'm talking about.
i give some good tips and what to avoid for my white friends that visit china for vacation.
they went disbelieve, and came back to thanks me.
China- good place are very good, good people are very good.
bad place are very bad, bad people are very bad.
Granted they live in their reserve and they don't receive much education but it's not because it ain't available to them.
THEY WANT to be separated from the rest of Canada THEY WANT their own culture/country whatever you want to call it.
It's very different we don't intervein in their business unless it poses trouble to the rest of Canada (Exemple there was a raid last week with the Mohawk police and the Quebec police to stop some drug dealers).
Other than that we leave them alone and they're happy with it, geez they don't even pay taxes.
Now if we go to Tibet a COUNTRY ... hmm that's a different story.
I see oppression and mass killing of protestor against an invador.
Pretty much like what's happening in Irak and Afghanistan... Can you be mad at these people for protecting their own country? I don't think so... I fully support the people of Tibet from wanting to protect their land from China which is an abusive country as everyone knows. Stop trying to protect them by saying they're some bandits attacking military convoi that AREN'T EVEN IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
Same thing with Taiwan, if they weren't backed by the US do you really think China would leave them alone ? Hell no, they'd prolly rape and kill everyone until they bend over and say "ok we're back with China".
Screw that.
Taiwan's office name : republic of china.
personally if Taiwan is gonna go independance, i prefer they do it right.
independance as replulic of China, not some madeup nation, because it's easy way out.
I know they ain't independant... china has said many times it would use force to make sure it doesn't go independant.
As I already said before, China is where it is because we let em be...
They abuse our own capitalism to their own advantage (which is smart of them to be honest) but what it creates is an illusion of grandeur where 5-10% of the country lives with all the money and everyone else is piss poor. AKA Africa.
I'm no international know it all person but I've read enough on the subject to know that was China is doing is plain wrong as far as human rights are concerned and sadly since they produce close to everything we use nobody's going to raise a finger cuz it's the OH MIGHTY CHINA.
Pffft...
One thing they lack though is big penis.
AH! We win ... again!