Yeah I left shortly after, probably around 2pm or so. The other "Online Pro's" took turns showing video of their play and explaining things. Here is what they covered.
Example 1
Call a raise on the Button with Q9 of hearts and flop the nut straight.
Raiser checks.. you bet... Raiser calls. Turn is a 3.. Raiser checks... you bet... Raiser calls.... River is a 9 putting a 3rd spade out there... Raiser checks... (now instead of checking behind Mr. Online Pro reopens the betting with a bet on the river and gets raised and finally just calls. (Raiser was bluffing) .
Lesson 2.. (this is all 1/2 NL btw)
Call a $10 raise out of the SB with 88 and flop a set on a 8KA board.. apparently you should Bet the flop, Turn and River... never knew that.
Lesson 3
You raise in midposition with AK suited and get 2 callers... flop is 722, sb checks.. here the proper play is a CONTINUATION BET.. (insert sarcasm here) and the cutoff and sb call. Turn is an ACE.. sb checks again, here the pro's discuss at great length whether to give a free card or bet, they finally settle on a bet which is called by both. River is a 9 and sb checks, again they discuss a bet and decide on a 1/2 pot bet which goes uncalled.
As you can see, these are all very tricky situations that you might need help with at some point.
Thanks for the ticket Voodoo, the session was a little dry early on with a little too much story telling and although they were interesting I've heard most before. After lunch it got a little more interesting as we got into some hand discussion (cash, SNG's and tournaments). It was interesting to hear how some of these top pro's differentiated on how best to play them. It really makes you realize how we are not much different in abilities from them other than bankroll and opportunity. It ended around 5 with a real good question and answer session, where I think I picked up the most info... Several of the questioners seemed to try and get under Phil's skin with questions about some of his blowups.. That was a little funny, but he never did seem to get irritated.. The drive home wasn't as bad as I had feared as there was not much traffic on the roads..
Thanks for the ticket Voodoo, the session was a little dry early on with a little too much story telling and although they were interesting I've heard most before. After lunch it got a little more interesting as we got into some hand discussion (cash, SNG's and tournaments). It was interesting to hear how some of these top pro's differentiated on how best to play them. It really makes you realize how we are not much different in abilities from them other than bankroll and opportunity. It ended around 5 with a real good question and answer session, where I think I picked up the most info... The drive home wasn't as bad as I had feared as there was not much traffic on the roads..
Not a problem... good seeing ya again.. as much as I would have liked to stay for that I found the video's boring early on, I get more out of the one's on Cardrunners. I ran into Hellmuth in the lobby outside the room as I was leaving and we snapped a couple quick picks and chatted, he handed me a signed picture (which I have no clue what to do with really) and then I jetted out of there as the weather wasn't the greatest, the drive back up north was alot worse than I had anticipated but made it back in one piece.
To paraphrase the ING DIRECT bank guy: "Save your money!". 13CARDS and I discussed the non-event at length on the 2 HOUR drive home to Niagara, (slow and steady keeps you alive, and part of the "under" in the "cars in the ditch" line, set at 3...there were 5). Look for his expert analysis to follow shortly...
lol.. nice.. we were the guys at the table right behind you and to your right. It took him a while to come up with the "I usually buy in for 50X when I play"
- It was clearly evident that Phil knows nothing about online play, and to this date still finds that the quality of players coming out of it are way inferior
- The point form notes / screens were just awful. At least I think Phil agreed.
- driving downtown was slippery fun! Highways were fun
- free starbucks always good
- I'm trying to calculate how the gift bag was $300. Expensive mints
- I hope somebody ended up asking him when his headsup with Durr would take place
- trying to decide if the price of parking was even worth the trip
- surprised at the turnout though, showed up just after 10 and room was filled and sat in the back
Someone did ask about the Durr potential match. He said Durr would have to come to him and that he (Helmuth) had nothing to prove... and nothing to gain..
If I had paid $300. for the session I would have been severely disappointed. Parking was $10. and I guess that was a wash... Looked somewhat disjointed for sure, seems like Phil had never seen the slides before....
Agree with you on the gift bags... lol, maybe $30-40?
it's still clearly where almost all of the value in the "$300" bag comes from. It's clearly ridiculous and if i paid I would have been super pissed, but i would never had paid so i guess it's moot.
Someone did ask about the Durr potential match. He said Durr would have to come to him and that he (Helmuth) had nothing to prove... and nothing to gain..
he also that he thought he might only be a 30-40% favourite.
ahhahhahahahahahhahaha.
That was me that asked him about it, i was really curious how he would handle it.
This was easily the worst run, worst organized seminar I have ever been to (on any topic).
- with a clearly laid out schedule --> FOLLOW IT.
- I learned absolutely nothing; in fact, I seem more confused and may actually have gotten stoopidier.
- 100% disjointed. No clear path. No building of a foundation of knowledge and then expanding on that to build new concepts/theories.
-why was the MC (alex?) so involved with the discussion. Wasn't that what the pros were there for?
-CONTRADICTION was the word of the day. One pro would say something and then the next would say the exact opposite.
- DEBO and KRAZY KANUCK had insightful views on each topic. The others did not.
-For $300/head and about 100 or so people there, $30,000 should get non-flashing screens and working mics. Totally amateur setup,
I could go on and on but I am putting everything into an email to send to UB. I'll let you know the response I get.
WARN YOUR FRIENDS IN THE OTHER CITIES NOT TO ATTEND THIS EVENT.
*******************************************************************
This is the email I sent to every UltimateBet address I could find:
To whom it may concern:
My name is {removed}. I just returned home after attending the UltimateBet Cross Canada Tour's first stop in Toronto, Ontario. I wanted to provide you with a review of the event.
Upon arriving at the Dominion conference room at 8:00am, I found the doors open and no registration desk set up. Basically, anyone could have just walked in, taken a seat and participated in the event without purchasing a $300 ticket. When the registration desk did open, I provided my e-ticket and was given a gift bag and lanyard. But, if I had not bothered to register at the desk, I could have stayed for the whole event without anyone questioning my presence.
When the seminar began, it appeared that Phil Hellmuth would be taking the lead, with added insight provided by the other UB pros, and that the mc would be there to keep the process moving along and to keep things on topic. Other than Phil speaking the most, none of these things happened. Hellmuth not only disagreed with most of the information displayed on the screens (and written in our course booklet), he kept going off topic, confusing many of the details of the segment with other segments (ie: taking about online tournament play when the topic was Live Cash Game Strategies,etc.). The other pros would interject sometimes, only to provide totally contradictory information or to get ridiculed by Hellmuth. Also, the mc began to take on a role of a UB pro, becoming more and more involved with the discussions and getting his "two-cents" in on every topic.
The technical aspects of the events were lacking as well. The computer screen constantly flashed and turned off and on during video replays of hands and I don't think any of the six or seven microphones worked properly.
Although the course booklet seemed to have a defined itinerary and timeline, it was not adhered to. The jumps from topic to topic were disjointed; I was often confused as to whether we were discussing Cash Games, Tournaments, Sit-N-Go's, Live Play or Online Play. The discussion did not start with a base of information and then build upon that knowledge to teach/reinforce new topics. It was clear that the group of featured speakers had not gotten together beforehand to dry-run the event. Although I did find that Debo and Krazy Kanuck had some insightful things to say, when they were afforded the opportunity to speak without ridicule, the other speakers did not provide me with anything useful that I took away to incorporate into my poker game.
I stayed for the whole event even though I contemplated leaving early almost every hour. There was nothing keeping me in my seat other than the fact that I paid $300 cash to be there. I brought my camera but did not take any photos. I brought a Sharpie to get some autographs but I did not take it out of my bag. I would have happily given back the gift bag and promised to forget everything I had "learned" while I was there for a full refund.
Also, the included email was sent to me AFTER I had already paid cash for the event. I sent an email back requesting a refund and was told that the tickets were non-refundable. For the following reasons, I am hereby officially asking for a FULL REFUND of $299:
1. Had I received the email offer in a timely fashion, not well after the event was promoted (and prompted me to RESERVE TODAY, LIMITED SEATING), I could have made the required $200 deposit and attended the event for FREE (ultimately withdrawing my $200 deposit at no penalty).
2. I could have simply attended the event by walking in, taking a seat and stayed for the whole seminar (including the breakfast, lunch and beverages provided) WITHOUT EVER REGISTERING. No one checked to make sure people were registered, were who they said they were, etc..
3. I truly feel that this was the worst organized, worst run seminar, on any topic, I have ever attended. I can truthfully say that I did not learn one thing from any of the pros that spoke.
I am thoroughly disappointed that this event was so poorly executed; I had very high hopes and expectations with the UltimateBet name attached to the event. I hope for the sake of UB's reputation that the featured speakers pull their act together and provide the other cities on the tour with a much better product than was delivered to those in attendance in Toronto.
Sincerely disappointed,
{removed}
Niagara Falls, ON
13, I completely agree with you about feeling stupider and the contradiction. I was sitting in the back row, and pretty much had my arms crossed the whole session, thinking wtf?
Thus my 2hr exit
I think my drive in was longer
lol Durr would own him and he knows it. He's such a bad cash game player and it was so evident, him trying to tell a story of how he bluffed with 63o or whatever.
I was with 13cards, and we were discussing the hands and the analysis of said hands as the day wore on. He asked me who I thought the most insightful speaker that day was, I said it was him. SAVE YOUR MONEY! THIS IS AN ALL DAY INFOMERCIAL FOR ULTIMATE BET, THE BEST DAMN POKER SHOW, AND PHIL (THIS IS MY BRACELET, ONE OF ELEVEN) HELLMUTH.
One of two things will happen with regards to your email.
1. They ignore you.
2. You get a form letter telling they are sorry you didn't enjoy the experience but you're not getting a refund.
Welcome to the corporate world, you of all people should realize this since you work for a corporation. People are disappointed with how the are treated everyday at Niagara but A. either don't complain or B. they do but it falls on deaf ears most of the time.
It's great you emailed them and voiced your concerns, if only to help vent your frustrations but I seriously doubt you get the closure you seek. IMO
I have read all of the event reports with great interest. Thanks to everyone for posting their thoughts on the event. I was going to attend the Ottawa Session next Sunday (hosted by Annie Duke), but will now definitely not attend. Phil was not going to attend the Ottawa session...
I have read all of the event reports with great interest. Thanks to everyone for posting their thoughts on the event. I was going to attend the Ottawa Session next Sunday (hosted by Annie Duke), but will now definitely not attend. Phil was not going to attend the Ottawa session...
I was talking to the guy that puts together the WSOP Acamedy stuff and he said that Annie Duke was by far the best INSTRUCTOR they have and wouldn't think twice about having her at any of his academies. The guys yesterday just didn't seem to have or follow any structure. It was obvious that hadn't sat down and looked at things or planned out a course to follow. The Ottawa one with Duke in all likelihood will be tenfold better.
I hope everyone else in the future cities reads these posts and takes them to heart. If you really want to learn everything that they argued about, spend you money on "Harrington on Hold'em, Vol. 1", and you will still have $260ish to spend on poker tournament buy-ins. (No cheesy gift bag included, sorry).
BTW, the RMS brochure came with a nifty litttle flashlight!
With regards to the WSOP academies, I read something interesting recently, although I can't remember the source. Joe Hachem was talking to one of the participants. and he thought what they did was irrellievant as it came to advanced poker, which is what everyone would be expecting. My opinion: They are basically glorified tournaments, with some fluff at the beginning. To all future potential UBTOUR participants: we told you, or I should say we warned you...
Rigged to be junk, possible. It's too bad that nothing will be done for the participants that already wasted $300. All we can do is vent, rant, whatever, and warn others. Remember, you are your own bank account manager. SAVE YOUR MONEY!
So who's playing in the UB freeroll that all attendees are entitled to? 172 entries, top 9 get entry into Aruba seat final which hopefully will have 2 seats to Aruba to be won.
The freeroll just started at 6pm EST.
Comments
Example 1
Call a raise on the Button with Q9 of hearts and flop the nut straight.
Raiser checks.. you bet... Raiser calls. Turn is a 3.. Raiser checks... you bet... Raiser calls.... River is a 9 putting a 3rd spade out there... Raiser checks... (now instead of checking behind Mr. Online Pro reopens the betting with a bet on the river and gets raised and finally just calls. (Raiser was bluffing) .
Lesson 2.. (this is all 1/2 NL btw)
Call a $10 raise out of the SB with 88 and flop a set on a 8KA board.. apparently you should Bet the flop, Turn and River... never knew that.
Lesson 3
You raise in midposition with AK suited and get 2 callers... flop is 722, sb checks.. here the proper play is a CONTINUATION BET.. (insert sarcasm here) and the cutoff and sb call. Turn is an ACE.. sb checks again, here the pro's discuss at great length whether to give a free card or bet, they finally settle on a bet which is called by both. River is a 9 and sb checks, again they discuss a bet and decide on a 1/2 pot bet which goes uncalled.
As you can see, these are all very tricky situations that you might need help with at some point.
Not a problem... good seeing ya again.. as much as I would have liked to stay for that I found the video's boring early on, I get more out of the one's on Cardrunners. I ran into Hellmuth in the lobby outside the room as I was leaving and we snapped a couple quick picks and chatted, he handed me a signed picture (which I have no clue what to do with really) and then I jetted out of there as the weather wasn't the greatest, the drive back up north was alot worse than I had anticipated but made it back in one piece.
Was that you that asked why he was buying in for only $100 instead of 200. That was pretty funny if it was.
lol.. nice.. we were the guys at the table right behind you and to your right. It took him a while to come up with the "I usually buy in for 50X when I play"
- The point form notes / screens were just awful. At least I think Phil agreed.
- driving downtown was slippery fun! Highways were fun
- free starbucks always good
- I'm trying to calculate how the gift bag was $300. Expensive mints
- I hope somebody ended up asking him when his headsup with Durr would take place
- trying to decide if the price of parking was even worth the trip
- surprised at the turnout though, showed up just after 10 and room was filled and sat in the back
If I had paid $300. for the session I would have been severely disappointed. Parking was $10. and I guess that was a wash... Looked somewhat disjointed for sure, seems like Phil had never seen the slides before....
Agree with you on the gift bags... lol, maybe $30-40?
he also that he thought he might only be a 30-40% favourite.
ahhahhahahahahahhahaha.
That was me that asked him about it, i was really curious how he would handle it.
This was easily the worst run, worst organized seminar I have ever been to (on any topic).
- with a clearly laid out schedule --> FOLLOW IT.
- I learned absolutely nothing; in fact, I seem more confused and may actually have gotten stoopidier.
- 100% disjointed. No clear path. No building of a foundation of knowledge and then expanding on that to build new concepts/theories.
-why was the MC (alex?) so involved with the discussion. Wasn't that what the pros were there for?
-CONTRADICTION was the word of the day. One pro would say something and then the next would say the exact opposite.
- DEBO and KRAZY KANUCK had insightful views on each topic. The others did not.
-For $300/head and about 100 or so people there, $30,000 should get non-flashing screens and working mics. Totally amateur setup,
I could go on and on but I am putting everything into an email to send to UB. I'll let you know the response I get.
WARN YOUR FRIENDS IN THE OTHER CITIES NOT TO ATTEND THIS EVENT.
*******************************************************************
This is the email I sent to every UltimateBet address I could find:
To whom it may concern:
My name is {removed}. I just returned home after attending the UltimateBet Cross Canada Tour's first stop in Toronto, Ontario. I wanted to provide you with a review of the event.
Upon arriving at the Dominion conference room at 8:00am, I found the doors open and no registration desk set up. Basically, anyone could have just walked in, taken a seat and participated in the event without purchasing a $300 ticket. When the registration desk did open, I provided my e-ticket and was given a gift bag and lanyard. But, if I had not bothered to register at the desk, I could have stayed for the whole event without anyone questioning my presence.
When the seminar began, it appeared that Phil Hellmuth would be taking the lead, with added insight provided by the other UB pros, and that the mc would be there to keep the process moving along and to keep things on topic. Other than Phil speaking the most, none of these things happened. Hellmuth not only disagreed with most of the information displayed on the screens (and written in our course booklet), he kept going off topic, confusing many of the details of the segment with other segments (ie: taking about online tournament play when the topic was Live Cash Game Strategies,etc.). The other pros would interject sometimes, only to provide totally contradictory information or to get ridiculed by Hellmuth. Also, the mc began to take on a role of a UB pro, becoming more and more involved with the discussions and getting his "two-cents" in on every topic.
The technical aspects of the events were lacking as well. The computer screen constantly flashed and turned off and on during video replays of hands and I don't think any of the six or seven microphones worked properly.
Although the course booklet seemed to have a defined itinerary and timeline, it was not adhered to. The jumps from topic to topic were disjointed; I was often confused as to whether we were discussing Cash Games, Tournaments, Sit-N-Go's, Live Play or Online Play. The discussion did not start with a base of information and then build upon that knowledge to teach/reinforce new topics. It was clear that the group of featured speakers had not gotten together beforehand to dry-run the event. Although I did find that Debo and Krazy Kanuck had some insightful things to say, when they were afforded the opportunity to speak without ridicule, the other speakers did not provide me with anything useful that I took away to incorporate into my poker game.
I stayed for the whole event even though I contemplated leaving early almost every hour. There was nothing keeping me in my seat other than the fact that I paid $300 cash to be there. I brought my camera but did not take any photos. I brought a Sharpie to get some autographs but I did not take it out of my bag. I would have happily given back the gift bag and promised to forget everything I had "learned" while I was there for a full refund.
Also, the included email was sent to me AFTER I had already paid cash for the event. I sent an email back requesting a refund and was told that the tickets were non-refundable. For the following reasons, I am hereby officially asking for a FULL REFUND of $299:
1. Had I received the email offer in a timely fashion, not well after the event was promoted (and prompted me to RESERVE TODAY, LIMITED SEATING), I could have made the required $200 deposit and attended the event for FREE (ultimately withdrawing my $200 deposit at no penalty).
2. I could have simply attended the event by walking in, taking a seat and stayed for the whole seminar (including the breakfast, lunch and beverages provided) WITHOUT EVER REGISTERING. No one checked to make sure people were registered, were who they said they were, etc..
3. I truly feel that this was the worst organized, worst run seminar, on any topic, I have ever attended. I can truthfully say that I did not learn one thing from any of the pros that spoke.
I am thoroughly disappointed that this event was so poorly executed; I had very high hopes and expectations with the UltimateBet name attached to the event. I hope for the sake of UB's reputation that the featured speakers pull their act together and provide the other cities on the tour with a much better product than was delivered to those in attendance in Toronto.
Sincerely disappointed,
{removed}
Niagara Falls, ON
Thus my 2hr exit
I think my drive in was longer
lol Durr would own him and he knows it. He's such a bad cash game player and it was so evident, him trying to tell a story of how he bluffed with 63o or whatever.
1. $250 useless coupon
2. Tin of mints
3. Squishy hockey puck
4. T-shirt
5. BLUFF magazine
6. Course Workbook
7. RMS Brochure
8. Invite to a Freeroll Tournament on UB
I think that was it.
1. They ignore you.
2. You get a form letter telling they are sorry you didn't enjoy the experience but you're not getting a refund.
Welcome to the corporate world, you of all people should realize this since you work for a corporation. People are disappointed with how the are treated everyday at Niagara but A. either don't complain or B. they do but it falls on deaf ears most of the time.
It's great you emailed them and voiced your concerns, if only to help vent your frustrations but I seriously doubt you get the closure you seek. IMO
I was talking to the guy that puts together the WSOP Acamedy stuff and he said that Annie Duke was by far the best INSTRUCTOR they have and wouldn't think twice about having her at any of his academies. The guys yesterday just didn't seem to have or follow any structure. It was obvious that hadn't sat down and looked at things or planned out a course to follow. The Ottawa one with Duke in all likelihood will be tenfold better.
BTW, the RMS brochure came with a nifty litttle flashlight!
Rigged to be junk, possible. It's too bad that nothing will be done for the participants that already wasted $300. All we can do is vent, rant, whatever, and warn others. Remember, you are your own bank account manager. SAVE YOUR MONEY!
The freeroll just started at 6pm EST.