The REAL PRO???
For God's Sake, I don't think so called Pros can make to the final table every time when there are like 5000 people in the tournment. Not even, maybe 3 times out of 10 the most. I would really like to see some sort of Video that caught a pro on tape through the whole process. If you ever played on a Major tournment or so, You would know that playing ur best and dodging all the bullet will not get you too far. You will need to coin-flip a couple of times to clear up a few players in order to have certain amount of chips to be beneficial. let's say a pro can do two things, 1. dodge bullets, sure that will keep him alive, but how can he double or triple his chips when there are other people having 10x more chips than he does? for example, let's say there are like 5000 people in this tournment, now there are only 99 players remaining, and the so called pro is placed 77th, the top 10 players have 100x times more chips than he does. u think he is going to make to the final table?
I doubt it. 2. Make all the money when the pro has good card. that's BULL SHIT TOO, It really depends on what other players have, let's say if you have A10, and the flop comes 1010A, and I have 2-6 off suit, u think u are going to make money on that? any check, any bet performed I will fold my hand no matter what.
So the conclusion is, you can only take it to so far by skills, the rest depends on luck. i am pretty sure, pros can get their ass to top 200 frequently, but top 10? no way.
I doubt it. 2. Make all the money when the pro has good card. that's BULL SHIT TOO, It really depends on what other players have, let's say if you have A10, and the flop comes 1010A, and I have 2-6 off suit, u think u are going to make money on that? any check, any bet performed I will fold my hand no matter what.
So the conclusion is, you can only take it to so far by skills, the rest depends on luck. i am pretty sure, pros can get their ass to top 200 frequently, but top 10? no way.
Comments
Why does John Juanda, Daniel Negranu, Phil Helmuth, et al make so many final tables? It's not because they are the luckiest every week I assure you of that. Yes luck does carry some weight, you have to be lucky quite a few times during the course of as tourny, but skill has far more to do with it than what you are saying.
and you pretty sure can name more than 50 pros.... how many made to the final table in an event? maybe 3-5? out of what? 100? 200?
It's the government's fault I tell you!!!!!
If the pros never make the FT, why are you aspiring to be a pro too?
And if you play 10-20 limit live, why the fuck are you only sitting down at freerolls with huge fields online? I doubt first prize is even significant to your bankroll so why not play something meaningful?
Under/over of WPT type final tables he makes is -1 (note, watching one live does not count)
Seriously, that wacky original post followed up by the freeroll results data (seriously 1000 freerolls yikes as I am guessing most are the pure $25 prize pool variety).
By the way, if you never ever make a final table then you are probably too tight in tournaments and when you make the money (a nickel, a dime?)you crawl into it as you are being blinded out.
Luck definitely helps, and freak luck really helps (when I split in the finals of the monthly 100k Stars freeroll I literally did not lose a hand in the last 3 hours), but luck is not the only factor for tournament success, and the fact that some people consistently do well long term proves that, even though the results of any given tournament do not matter much.
The poster did NOT say he was winning
To the OP, freerolls <> Poker; freerolls = BINGO.
As for luck, you need to use your skill to enable you to be lucky. By that I mean you need the skill to build a stack allowing you to make calls when you are behind and get lucky.
...ohhhhh Snap.
For example:
- Isabelle Mercier (well known Canadian player) - top finish 5th - $175k WSOP 2006 - there are some forum members that have earned more than her in 2007 than her total career earnings combined
- Evelyn Ng (semi well known Canadian player) - top cash - 39th for $73k in WPT event 2006. Not sure how this chick survives... definitely not on her tournament winnings. But she is on TV quite a bit and I would say she is well known
Exactly what I was thinking
Certainly you realize that the majority of pro players make their living on cash games.
Some other pros were simply at the right place at the right time. Chris Moneymaker defines this - great name, fun attitude and at the time a complete nobody which made him the perfect poster boy for the WSOP (anyone can win).
Hellmuth used some thought in creating an image for himself and it worked though it risks becoming a parody of itself.
Others may have gotten exposure from quirky behavior but really that does need some staying power in tournaments to sustain itself.
Contrast that shark/chark guy who really does well in tournaments though his clown show has become what he is known for (despite being a quality player), versus that Swedish guy who was screaming non stop a couple years ago at the WSOP final table. People kind of remember the screaming but forget the person since he has not really done much since.
Also, as more and more WSOP/WPT along with EPT events happen the "fame" one gets from winning it will diminish (WSOP main event aside). Poker is strong but it is not the fad it was a couple years ago so becoming a "celebrity" will become harder and harder.
Also keep in mind that outside of the poker fans the only players who maybe achieved a tiny amount of mainsteam fame are Doyle Brunson, Phil Hellmuth, Johnny Chan (mainly due to Rounders) and perhaps Chris Moneymaker, and none of them are exactly A list mainstream.
Edit: What is the context of Dalini? Was that a poster who just posted random rants that lacked logic or something in the past?
sounds like the typical post of a person who can't crack the final table without getting crazy lucky. i agree with Monteroy that you're probably way too tight late in tournaments and just squeeze in, unless you get 'lucky' and make the final table. obviously i'm not saying you should be able to make final tables at will, but if you are consistently making the top 50 out of 1000+ like you mention then you're lack of final tables has nothing to do with luck. it has to do with your poor play late in tournaments.
thanks for your comment, but the thing is to play limit poker, time and patience is all I need. but to participate in a tournment is not that simple. we all got to live and learn right? So I don't want to learn it the hard way, at least I would love to learn some of these things from people here that have played poker for years. AND I AM SURE THEY ALL GOT THEIR OWN GOOD EXP ABOUT POKER.
thanks for the comment and the information. I do agree with what you just said. But I certainly do think Some players(Pros) play better than others. Just to be excat, I do think HANSON is better than Daniel negreau or whatever how u spell his name. Maybe you can come up with 10 million reasons that I am wrong, but I do think Hanson is way better than Daniel's playing style or "System". they are not on the same level. and please correct me in details if i am wrong in any way. Again I am here to learn, and I can tell what information is useful for myself. So please dont add comments like "your mama is a pro" thats just fucking stupid.
For you, it's about finding a player who you like and feel that you can learn from. Use that as your guide. You can also like a pro for their personality or their game style but know you can never emulate or learn from them because it would change things about your game that make it yours.
That's what she said...
English only plz
okay english plz.
True!!! GOOD POINT!!
Trust me, you can't tell anything about what a player makes from online reports as they give you no clue to how much they spent or how they got the funds to do so and they give you no clue as to their cash game results.
Then you factor in the internet and that can throw the equation off astronomically in either direction. The bottom line is if a player gets all or most of his income every year from poker and lives well doing it --- kudos to him. It is a pretty good life for those with a brain and no bad habits or leaks. One of freedom and a lot of fun.
Zunni74
Are you a girl? Welcome to the forum!
I suddenly feel like I'm in the crying game
lol zunni