I play really badly. 1/2limit on Full Tilt
2nd or 3rd hand after sitting down.. and losing a big pot...
I'll post my thoughts on this hand later...
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T
, T
.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, BB calls.
Flop: (14.50 SB) J, 7, 9
(3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (10.75 BB) Q(2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls.
River: (17.75 BB) 3(2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls $1 (All-In).
Final Pot: 18.75 BB
The hand before this hand ... this happened....
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, J.
2 folds, MP1 checks, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.
Flop: (6.50 SB) 9, 7, 6 (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero folds, BB calls.
Turn: (8.75 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB bets, MP1 raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls.
River: (15.75 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB bets, MP1 calls.
Final Pot: 17.75 BB
Seat 3: (big blind) showed [8d Td] and won ($31.50) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 6: MP1 mucked [Th Ad] - a pair of Fours
Seat 6 is the villan in the next hand.
I'll post my thoughts on this hand later...
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T
, T.1 fold, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, BB calls.
Flop: (14.50 SB) J
, 7, 9(3 players)BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (10.75 BB) Q
(2 players)UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls.
River: (17.75 BB) 3
(2 players)UTG+1 bets, Hero calls $1 (All-In).
Final Pot: 18.75 BB
The hand before this hand ... this happened....
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, J.
2 folds, MP1 checks, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.
Flop: (6.50 SB) 9, 7, 6 (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero folds, BB calls.
Turn: (8.75 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB bets, MP1 raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls.
River: (15.75 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB bets, MP1 calls.
Final Pot: 17.75 BB
Seat 3: (big blind) showed [8d Td] and won ($31.50) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 6: MP1 mucked [Th Ad] - a pair of Fours
Seat 6 is the villan in the next hand.
Comments
Without any reads, I'm thinking you were doomed on the flop. When the Qs hit the turn, you should have bailed on this hand.
I'm curious about the play on earlier streets but wouldn't fold on the turn.
By the turn the only hand I can see you beating here is A-K or a pocket pair lower then 9's. (and 9's and 7's have made trips) unless he has some kind of donkey hand like A-9 or A-7.
Gotta be careful out your calling odds in limit. And I'm not sure you have that many good outs anyway. Best I can see is a gut shot straight draw...any other spade you're dead, any J or Q you're dead. Realistically, you're only drawing to two outs and need both to win the hand.
Limit traps you into thinking you have the outs to call, but you really have to be drawing to the nuts to do so, and I just don't see it in this hand after the flop.
I figure the turn raise was due to the fact you had not much left behind you as no way he was leaving that pot.
He's drawing to the 3rd nut flush heads up. You want to give his opponent credit for As or Ks?
He has OESD. You want to give his opponent credit for AT from UTG+1 capped PF?
I understand his opponent could already have the nut flush but without a strong read I can't assume that is the case for anything close to 90% of the time here. What kind of hands would our opponent play the same way from UTG+1 in a 9-handed game? AA, KK, QQ, maybe JJ, AJs+? Feel free to add to the range and calculate the equity.
Just look at the pot odds. You don't think he has at least an 8% chance to win this hand?
Given his likely holdings, I don't think the two tens left are good to you. Unless he's got Aces, they either give him a straight or will leave you losing trips over trips.
Not all your outs to the straight or flush are good either as there is a decent chance you're be drawing dead or he's holding a higher spade. There are eight spades remaining and possibly six additional K or 8. Roughly, at the table, I'd chop those fourteen outs to one-third. About 5 outs with one card to come is approx 10% to win (during a hand we're doing rough odds here). His initial bet on the turn gives you slightly better odds than that so calling is good. I definitely do not raise with that equity though.
When the 3 comes, I'd probably call the river too. While I'd treat him as a reasonable player, the pot is too big to fold and a reasonable player might even see you as tilting or a donkey if you just lost a big pot.
Was there some dead money in the hand? Three max bets and a small blind doesn't equal 14.50 SB. And 14.50 SB plus the flop betting doesn't equal what the pot shows to be on the turn. It doesn't change the odds much either way, I guess.
You must not play limit often?
Lately, no not too much. But I know when I'm beat. My logic is somewhat out of tune in early posts, but reading the history of this hand, I just know it's time to lay this hand down.
Yeah, 9 times out of 10, it is. But since you can't know which time is which without a read, you proceed to play all 10 times (and 100 times and 1000 times) and break even at worst.
You'd be surprised how many players will go nuts with AK in this kind of situation.
Slim chance the Ts are good here. No, it's the draw that gets you to call the river (but not raise) and the slim chance that the Ts are good gets you to call the one more bet given the large pot if you don't hit the draw.
BigChris is right!
ummmmmmmmmmm, naaaaaa...might make me think I am wrong here
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A
2 folds, MP1 checks, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.
Flop: (6.50 SB) 9
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero folds, BB calls.
Turn: (8.75 BB) 4
BB bets, MP1 raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls.
River: (15.75 BB) 4
BB bets, MP1 calls.
Final Pot: 17.75 BB
Seat 3: (big blind) showed [8d Td] and won ($31.50) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 6: MP1 mucked [Th Ad] - a pair of Fours
Seat 6 is the villan in the next hand.
Folding the turn is absurd whether facing the initial bet or the 3 bet. There's far too much money in the pot, and there's far too many likely outs.
Yes, we're drawing dead to AKs specifically, but that's one hand, sets are far more likely (QQ and JJ specifically (discounting 99 and 77), in which case both our str and flush draws are good). As well AA and KK with a spade are possible, which leaves our str and set outs as good. In general we probably have something like 6-8 outs here maybe?
However, I'll echo the sentiment that raising the turn is bad here for a few reasons:
1) We don't really have a read that this semi-bluff raise will work (as he's an unknown I'm assuming this isn't a value raise).
2) He 3 bet the flop. That "should" suggest he has at least an overpair to the board. In general vs. an unknown we shouldn't expect to fold out an overpair (the only hands we can really bluff raise effectively on the turn are hands we beat and AA, KK without a spade (this would involve a read that villian can fold))
3) What sucks the most about the raise? We have outs! Heck, I'd almost prefer the raise here with ThTd (at least we can generally safely fold to a 3 bet here). So, we're raising on a bluff and completely compelled to call the 3 bet considering the draws we have (especially since we're up against an unknown).
IMO, call the turn.
On most rivers' i'm inclined to raise the straight, call the flush, and grudgingly call the set if it falls. I'd want to fold UI, but again, I might make the donkey call vs. an unknown...but I'm a showdown monkey at limit (I blame 6 max)hj
Limit is the new hotness.
Yeah Baby!
So I should have mentioned that the hand before I see the villan bet and call down with ATo that missed.
This strongly coloured my thinking about the villan.
I'm thinking he's playing very aggressive with a crappy hands so I'm not paying attention to what the villan is screaming...
Against most players the proper thing to do with pairs 99-QQ when you get capped preflop or if you raise and get 3 bet preflop is to play the hand very meekly. Here I'm not doing that because I'm thinking, "This guy is very aggressive with crappy hands" based on my huge sample size of one hand (sarcasm)
But since this guy calls to the river with ATo that missed how much fold equity do you have??
Answer: Fold equity is non existent.
Therefore semi bluffing is the *stupidest* thing you can do on the turn.
Also I'm also thinking I only have a few chips left since I did not reload.
Bingo! We have a winner.
I'll keep posting hands where I play like and idiot if this keep up! :-)
There is no such thing as fold equity in limit. However if you want to discuss the merits of raising for value...
Result?
I'd disagree (somewhat), but the equity probably generally comes when we manage to fold worse hands that have outs against us (eg. overcards). And yes, this is also betting for value, which is the bread and butter of LHE...