Anyone who plays on Full Tilt Poker or plans on it, Read this

Here is the last hand I played in a tournament in which I believe I could have made it into the top 3... possibly first place. Everything was going well until we got to the money, then this happened. The key parts to the hand are in bold... Notice the chat before the flop comes down...

*********** # 162 **************
FullTiltPoker Game #3265388264: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (24879059), Table 23 - 500/1000 Ante 125 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:43:33 ET - 2007/08/15

Seat 1: misterchames (20,717)
Seat 2: AcesUp123 (14,881)
Seat 3: tyler318 (23,680)
Seat 4: Burello (21,392)
Seat 5: icegator2 (13,876)
Seat 6: LuckySweety (30,139)
Seat 7: RDS45 (3,645)
Seat 8: Sid Vegas (28,250)
Seat 9: Jfrisella (8,430)
misterchames antes 125
AcesUp123 antes 125
tyler318 antes 125
Burello antes 125
icegator2 antes 125
LuckySweety antes 125
RDS45 antes 125
Sid Vegas antes 125
Jfrisella antes 125
Sid Vegas posts the small blind of 500
Jfrisella posts the big blind of 1,000
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AcesUp123 [Ad 2d]
misterchames folds
AcesUp123 raises to 14,756, and is all in
tyler318 folds
Burello folds
icegator2 has 15 seconds left to act
icegator2 has requested TIME
icegator2 calls 13,751, and is all in
LuckySweety folds
RDS45 folds
Sid Vegas calls 14,256
Sid Vegas: WTF

Jfrisella has 15 seconds left to act
Sid Vegas: I did not CALL
Jfrisella: im folding tens
Sid Vegas: I didnt even push a button
Jfrisella has timed out
Jfrisella folds
AcesUp123 shows [Ad 2d]
icegator2 shows [Ah Kh]
Sid Vegas shows [8d Qc]

Jfrisella: i should call
*** FLOP *** [8c 5c Js]
*** TURN *** [8c 5c Js] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [8c 5c Js 2c] [8h]
AcesUp123 shows two pair, Eights and Twos
Sid Vegas shows three of a kind, Eights
Sid Vegas wins the side pot (2,010) with three of a kind, Eights
icegator2 shows a pair of Eights
Sid Vegas wins the main pot (43,378) with three of a kind, Eights
Sid Vegas: HAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAH
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 45,388 Main pot 43,378. Side pot 2,010. | Rake 0
Board: [8c 5c Js 2c 8h]
Seat 1: misterchames folded before the Flop
Seat 2: AcesUp123 showed [Ad 2d] and lost with two pair, Eights and Twos
Seat 3: tyler318 folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Burello folded before the Flop
Seat 5: icegator2 showed [Ah Kh] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 6: LuckySweety folded before the Flop
Seat 7: RDS45 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: Sid Vegas (small blind) showed [8d Qc] and won (45,388) with three of a kind, Eights
Seat 9: Jfrisella (big blind) folded before the Flop



Now... I know from playing multiple hands with him, that Sid Vegas would not even consider calling that, and the fact that he said what he said before any cards even came up, there is no question in my mind that this happened because of some outside force. I have actually had this same thing happen to me where I did not click anything but the software automatically called or folded my hand. It was only in limit games, so it was not a big deal.

In my calculations, I would have been in roughly 3rd place in the tournament if this outside force was not present, but instead, I got put out.


I emailed Full Tilt Poker security about this, and here is what they sent back.


Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Customer Support.

After reviewing the hand history, we have seen that there was no
technical errors during hand number 3265388264. Are finding have shown
that player ID Sid Vegas, did press the call button.

Not only a complete grammatical disaster, but also, there was obviously no investigation done to even warrant a reply. Are these the type of people on Full Tilt who are protecting us from collusion and other problems these sites experience every day?

All of my money is now gone from that site, and I suggest to anyone who has money on Full Tilt Poker that they remove it swiftly and find another place to play for cash. I know that most sites take security seriously, but it is quite apparent that Full Tilt does not.


My 2 Cents!
«1

Comments

  • I've misclicked before, never had the software do it. And it's far more likely human error (Sid clicked by accident and didn't notice) or a hardware error in Sid's computer (mouse/keyboard) caused the call than FT software.
    AcesUp123 shows [Ad 2d]
    icegator2 shows [Ah Kh]
    ...
    In my calculations, I would have been in roughly 3rd place in the tournament if this outside force was not present, but instead, I got put out.

    By my calculations you made a donkey call with A-rag and would have hit your 3-outer (+ some outs for a diamond flush - blah, blah). Too bad that you got beaten by a worse hand that didn't mean to call when you would have sucked out against a better hand when you had no business being in the pot. My heart breaks for you, really... NOT! YPLC - quit whining.

    :wav: :wav:
    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
  • As I said, I have had this happen to me as well... but only on Full Tilt Poker.
  • Beanie is correct!

    Sid was just covering because he has software that he knows what the hold cards are and the next 10 cards or it could be that he forward the clock in the computer so he is playing hands 5 minutes before hand on one computer and then can play it out again to correct previous mistakes.

    Prophet :2h :2s
  • The thing that concerns me most is that the security department at Full Tilt could not care less. That is really my whole point. An issue is sent to them, and there was not even enough time before the reply to look at the hand history let alone do an investigation!

    My 2 Cents!
  • beanie42 wrote: »


    By my calculations you made a donkey call with A-rag and would have hit your 3-outer (+ some outs for a diamond flush - blah, blah). Too bad that you got beaten by a worse hand that didn't mean to call when you would have sucked out against a better hand when you had no business being in the pot. My heart breaks for you, really... NOT! YPLC - quit whining.



    Before you are too hard on the guy, he shoved his suited A with a M<10. There was no call by him.
  • Most likely he was hitting the advance prefold button just as it changed to his turn and was replaced with the instant call button.

    But I like the idea of saying "I didn't even hit a button" to get a few players off their game. :)
  • esool wrote: »
    Most likely he was hitting the advance prefold button just as it changed to his turn and was replaced with the instant call button.

    But I like the idea of saying "I didn't even hit a button" to get a few players off their game. :)


    lol... that happend to me a few days ago but on the SB I was about to click "call 150" and while I clicked it changed to call some crazy number that put me all-in and it all happended so fast that I went all in and lost ... oh well :P
  • Ok so you are upset that someone lost the hand right and that the FTP software screwed you...But in the first case why the fuck are you shoving A2 suited with over 10 m in 2nd position(UTG+1) with 9 people on the table? Its such a retarded move... Please inform me if you think otherwise...

    If this would have put you in the top 3 you would NOT have stayed there IMO...

    Just my 2 cents...
  • Ok so you are upset that someone lost the hand right and that the FTP software screwed you...But in the first case why the fuck are you shoving A2 suited with over 10 m in 2nd position(UTG+1) with 9 people on the table? Its such a retarded move... Please inform me if you think otherwise...

    If this would have put you in the top 3 you would NOT have stayed there IMO...

    Well put. NH, sir.
  • Dammit!! I was about to post that exact picture cadillac. Nice one lol.
  • Choron wrote: »
    But in the first case why the fuck are you shoving A2 suited with over 10 m in 2nd position(UTG+1) with 9 people on the table? Its such a retarded move... Please inform me if you think otherwise...
    Unless he faked the hand history, it looks like his M is less than 6.
  • Choron wrote: »
    Ok so you are upset that someone lost the hand right and that the FTP software screwed you...But in the first case why the fuck are you shoving A2 suited with over 10 m in 2nd position(UTG+1) with 9 people on the table? Its such a retarded move... Please inform me if you think otherwise...

    If this would have put you in the top 3 you would NOT have stayed there IMO...

    Just my 2 cents...


    To be totally honest... It was 10:45pm, and I had to work at 11:00pm... I was about to sit out and coast, and I got A2 diamonds, so I said "what the hell". If I win, I will coast further, but if I lose, I was in the money and had doubled my $ already anyways. If it wasnt for me having to leave for work, I would have just called and hoped nobody pushed...

    Without a doubt, the FTP software screwed me out of a donk win... but the biggest part of this is when I reported it to FTP, they really couldnt care less, and the message was sent by a person who could not even take the time to tell me he didnt care properly...

    _____________
    My 2 cents!
  • Without a doubt, the FTP software screwed me out of a donk win... but the biggest part of this is when I reported it to FTP, they really couldnt care less, and the message was sent by a person who could not even take the time to tell me he didnt care properly...

    While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, that doesn't make it fact.

    Which is more likely? FullTilt conspired to insert some bug into their code to screw you out of a win, or that the person actually mistakenly clicked the call button?

    User error is certainly possible, but even if FTP had a log confirming that user x clicked call, you'd be convinced that somehow the log was doctored because clearly a conspiracy is at play.

    If you think site X is shady, don't play there. But don't generate some crazy conspiracy theory about how shitty their software is for the sake of posting a donkey bad beat story.
  • Ok... I am not saying it is a conspiracy... where did you get that from?
    I am saying there is some bug in their software, and they don't care... they didn't even have time to investigate anything...
  • They do have a bug, it's the bug that consistently gives me bad beat after bad beat after bad beat.

    AA vs K8 I lose
    AA vs J6 I lose
    KK vs 72 I lose
    QQ vs 83 I lose
    JJ flopped set vs AT I still lose
    etc etc etc....

    Sorry, I have to go, my $5.50 on FTP is about to start.

    The fact of the matter is you shoved with shit, got called by 2 players, and 1 of them beat you. Case closed, you were free to go to work. Did you at least get a free Coke by tilting the pop machine?

    No conspiracy ever existed in this post.
  • OMG!!!

    I give up! Does anyone even read the posts before answering?

    I DID NOT get called by 2 players!
    I DID get called by 1 player. I BEAT the player who called.
    The player who DID NOT call WON.

    GEESH
  • Shove is fine from lp but not ep.
  • Man, some of these responses are a bit out of line. I can understand some members getting annoyed at 'online poker is rigged' posts however this one isn't nearly as blatant as mosts. Let's give the guy a break, on the post, on his opinion, on how he played his hand, on if he called/raised etc.....

    He was simply posting to reflect the lack of interest (in his opinion) that FTP had when he emailed them regarding a suspected bug.

    stp
  • Calling from EP is not acceptable in this case either...Don't play poker tournaments if you don't have time to play them well...That is one of the beautiful things about cash games...Yes, even at micro stakes if you need to...
  • Agreed w/ stpboy. Everyone keeps giving him grief about how he played the hand but that's not the pt of this thread. FT didn't seem to care.

    FWIW, my friend recently had a similar story. He said the other guy pushed & FT immediately folded him. He called me fuming (had nuts). I thought he must've mistakenly clicked fold but he insisted he didn't push anything & his connection was fine.

    I'm don't believe in poker conspiracies but this story is interesting.
  • HP_John wrote: »
    FT didn't seem to care.
    So let's collect up all these stories about mysterious button clicks and see how many you get. If it is a handful, FT shouldn't care. If it is thousands, I expect FT and the poker world would know about it.

    So far, we have 2 second-hand stories about mysterious clicks out of the millions of viewers of CPF. For now, I'd conclude most of these kinds of problems are explainable and not because of a fault in the software. Give me more evidence and I could be persuaded.

    And LOL @ those offering opinions on this hand.
  • Thank you all... I was just about to give up trying to explain the reason why I posted this...

    I have posted on other forums, and I have seen similar stories from about 6 different people...

    I would like to know how many times this happens, because I know I have folded when I didnt want to before on FT, and called when I didnt want to as well... I thought I did it by accident as well until this happened...

    ____________
    My 2 cents!
  • -ev wrote: »
    Unless he faked the hand history, it looks like his M is less than 6.

    You are correct sir. Anyone who thinks he shouldn't have shoved in this situation ain't making the top 3 of any tourney I can think of.

    The dude has 14756 chips left after posting the ante. 9x125+1500 per orbit gives him an m of 5.62. He is suited, connected and he has an A. WTF else would he be waiting for? To pay the blinds and lose another 12.7% of his stack 3 hands later?
  • I didn't even look at the antes or the buyin...my bad...

    I misclicked sunday million yesterday($530) in the 2nd hour and went from 55k to 19k(wonderful misclick)...I ran it up back to 94k in the 3rd hour and then proceeded to lose a 178k to a donk on tilt...AsKs vs 99(my ak) :(
  • I didn't even look at the antes or the buyin...my bad...

    Ditto, missed the antes.

    But back on topic...
    Everyone keeps giving him grief about how he played the hand but that's not the pt of this thread. FT didn't seem to care.

    I'm suggesting that maybe FT didn't seem to care, because from their perspective, it isn't a bug. User error is far more likely. If anything, it's possible it's a lousy UI design, but since I haven't played on FTP, I can't really comment.
  • I think FTP didn't care because they know that it is not their issue. It is the issue of the user. There are many reasons that this could (and we still don't know in this instance if the guy didn't click since no one was there at his computer) have ocurred. Getting upset at FTP is pointless. What can they possibly do? Perhaps if the other guy spoke with support they might have done something but it was you complaining about busting out of a tournament because someone else claims they didn't click?
  • I think FTP didn't care because they know that it is not their issue. It is the issue of the user. There are many reasons that this could (and we still don't know in this instance if the guy didn't click since no one was there at his computer) have ocurred. Getting upset at FTP is pointless. What can they possibly do? Perhaps if the other guy spoke with support they might have done something but it was you complaining about busting out of a tournament because someone else claims they didn't click?


    [X] WINNAR!!!!!
  • moose wrote: »
    You are correct sir. Anyone who thinks he shouldn't have shoved in this situation ain't making the top 3 of any tourney I can think of.

    The dude has 14756 chips left after posting the ante. 9x125+1500 per orbit gives him an m of 5.62. He is suited, connected and he has an A. WTF else would he be waiting for? To pay the blinds and lose another 12.7% of his stack 3 hands later?


    Well...How about he waits for a hand or until he has position, he's got neither. A desperate looking shove from utg+1 with A2 is called here so often by hands that are ahead or have him dominated. I'd rather shove from lp with 8 10 or 9 10 or similar where you have a better chance of picking up the blinds, are 40/60 vs. A rag, and in a 5+.50 maybe pick up some extra chips from someone who was dumb enough to limp.
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