Warning beggars/staking
Hi.
I have some gossip that I think is post worthy, and could come as a warning to others.
As many know, in this Sunday millions, Hollywoods7 came 17th. When they got down to 50 people he IM'd me to tell me.
Over the last year and a half he has been on my MSN and I have been supportive and helpful for him whenever I can. I had staked him several hundred bucks which he lost everytime. Several times I staked him in a rebuy, shipped him 20 rebuys and we agreed he'd ship back watever he didnt use. He never shipped back. On a few other occasions he begged me for small buyins like 11 or 22, which stars took forever to process (sometimes this happens) so i ended up sending twice with the agreement he'd send back the second if he got both. He never shipped back.
Ok, so at this point im wary of stakin him again and so forth, so he tells me if he ever wins anything he will ship back everything i have ever staked him. For makeup. Im thinking ok....
Fast forward to sunday million... He messages me saying he has no faith in himself and doesnt know how to win it. I have been lucky enough to have been in the room with people that have won this and have had pieces in several winners of the sunday mill so i said sure ill help u out if you ship back what i staked you. Cole says OK. My plan was to try and steer him to the FT at which point id ask for 5%. 5% is the standard helper fee in online poker from what i have experienced. I helped him play his hands till he busted, every hand I gave him advice on, and overall tried to keep him confident and pumped that he could win it.
He then busts out 17th to a 5 outer. I say GG please send me back something. His reply: Ill ship you 33$.
I el oh el'd and mentioned that id staked him hundreds. He said WHAT? WHEN? and logged off.
I don't think he even shipped the 33$. This is bad business, and left me dissapointed.
Bottom line is, one should not trust others over the internet, and it is a shame that this forum has bred a beggar/scammer such as this.
I have some gossip that I think is post worthy, and could come as a warning to others.
As many know, in this Sunday millions, Hollywoods7 came 17th. When they got down to 50 people he IM'd me to tell me.
Over the last year and a half he has been on my MSN and I have been supportive and helpful for him whenever I can. I had staked him several hundred bucks which he lost everytime. Several times I staked him in a rebuy, shipped him 20 rebuys and we agreed he'd ship back watever he didnt use. He never shipped back. On a few other occasions he begged me for small buyins like 11 or 22, which stars took forever to process (sometimes this happens) so i ended up sending twice with the agreement he'd send back the second if he got both. He never shipped back.
Ok, so at this point im wary of stakin him again and so forth, so he tells me if he ever wins anything he will ship back everything i have ever staked him. For makeup. Im thinking ok....
Fast forward to sunday million... He messages me saying he has no faith in himself and doesnt know how to win it. I have been lucky enough to have been in the room with people that have won this and have had pieces in several winners of the sunday mill so i said sure ill help u out if you ship back what i staked you. Cole says OK. My plan was to try and steer him to the FT at which point id ask for 5%. 5% is the standard helper fee in online poker from what i have experienced. I helped him play his hands till he busted, every hand I gave him advice on, and overall tried to keep him confident and pumped that he could win it.
He then busts out 17th to a 5 outer. I say GG please send me back something. His reply: Ill ship you 33$.
I el oh el'd and mentioned that id staked him hundreds. He said WHAT? WHEN? and logged off.
I don't think he even shipped the 33$. This is bad business, and left me dissapointed.
Bottom line is, one should not trust others over the internet, and it is a shame that this forum has bred a beggar/scammer such as this.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
i'd like to hear what cole has to say on this.
I can understand the chat to boost his confidence, but helping him play his hands? As you mention you've been in the room with several people who went deep, is it normal to have somebody "assist" in this way?
ME
'Helper fee?" Is this common? It sounds unethical to me. I've only been playing online for a year and a half, but I've never heard of this before. It does make some sense, but it leaves me with a sour taste regarding online poker. Another reason why live poker is better than online.
asbestos suit on! Now as for the rest, assuming that your claims are true, I can understand your fustration. And I'm actually really disappointed in Cole for his actions. I know he's a still a young man, and he needs to grow up and mature if he's going to join the REAL WORLD. If he tried that in Vegas, he'd have both legs and arms broken by hired goons.
But you did "loan" out the money with NO REAL guarantee that it would be coming back. He used you like a ATM, and did you nag him to return cash before? If you did, I think you would have know that his word was worthless.
Trust is not good collateral, even in an online commuinity of "friends"
Sorry about your luck, harthgosh
Johnnie
C'MON COLE PAY THE MAN BACK!
a) you don't know and trust.
b) haven't proven they can win at whatever stake you're staking them for.
If I'm off base on either a or b, then disregard this entire post.
IMO if a player needs to be staked at whatever he's playing, he probably shouldn't be playing at whatever level he's playing at. As such, anyone staking said player should expect to lose money.
I agree with a and b, this is why i posted the thread.
I can see how you would think it is unethical, but frankly its part of the game really. Thats the thing with online poker. Its no different from all the online poker schools that pros teach at, so it is widely accepted.
As far as the stakes i gave him, I was doing it to be nice rather than make money. He was the one that always said he'd pay it back, and now that he has an opportunity to do so (plus i helped him), I would expect him to follow through, which he hasn't and I doubt he will.
Thanks pkrfce, been kinda bummed out after burning my whole bankroll twice lockbetting. Betting sports is bad !! :-)
Gonna be back to grinding alot in a few months. Im moving to asia next week, so after im set up there back to the grind.
the staking thing is something between you and cole. it doesn't matter to anybody else on the forum whether he lost all your money or returned it 100 times over. generally, each stake is a separate deal and once it is over has no impact on the next stake. mind you, if your stakee has no chance of making money at it, your profit motive goes way down and it really is just doing a favour for someone, be they friend or not. i have no doubt that you have staked cole in the past. i even noted him begging for stakers in that last tourney and thought "there goes cole again looking for a staker." one guy in the tourney commented "why are you begging for stakes when you already stand to take down 5k here" and cole replied "it is not enough" or something to that effect.
fast forward to the situation at hand. again whatever 'deal' you and cole had is between you. you say you planned to get him to the FT then *ask* for 5%. so i can't conclude you had anything concrete in place. now, i have no doubt 5% is a very reasonable amount to 'share' with someone who's advice was indispensible. 5% of the 5k is around 250 bucks. you say he promised to ship back the hundreds you staked him. so i don't think you'd even be happy if he shipped you 5%.
i can't help but think you didn't post here to open our eyes about cole but really just to embarrass and shame him into giving you some money which you feel you deserve. i'm not a friend of cole's just someone who has competed against him a few times. heck, i don't even like the guy but i truly feel your post was inappropriate for this forum. thinking about it again, i don't think cole should even dignify your post with a response.
i wish you nothing but the best, rob. i hope you'll return to 'active' status in the forum. you have a very sharp poker mind and we could all learn from you. have a great time in asia.
What a f'n insult.
Well, I don't agree with you. I am not trying to shame him or embarass him. I don't think he is a bad kid. He helped me with my hockey pool, and we talk about other things then poker (EDIT:before he disgracefully replied with lies and stupidity. Now i think is douche)
Before I started really helping him on Sunday he agreed to hook me up with what I had staked him in the past, so i thought this was the minimum deal, and was happy to help a friend so cheaply.
If he made FT I woulda phoned him told him ill talk him through it for 5%, and that would be up to him.
The reason I chose to post this on this forum is because this is where he found me. He got my info from here and the rest is history.
I am also not trying to get anything from him. He had his chance already, and as everyone that knows me should realize I don't give a fuck about 300 bucks. I have won/lost 15k betting on one sports game and have played a fair bit of 100/200. Its about principle, and awareness for other members he may come begging too/make arrangements with.
If he chooses to pay me back so be it, I will say I was wrong in my assesment, but untill then i will warn other members.
I think its fair for the rest of the forum to know that if he comes asking, be prepared for what may happen. On the other forum I read alot they give avatars to the scammers and beggars so that others know. Im kinda doing the same thing.
OK my part of the story. I can say I once lent Cole $20 on Stars, he said he'd pay me back at Rob's (Zithal) next time I saw him there. Then I didn't see him for a while and we both kinda forgot, but he's since sent me the money back. As for helping people online, it's certainly that uncommon. There is no "one player to a hand" rule, and Lee Jones himself has stated this several times. I've helped Cole late in a few tournaments lately and I never asked for any money, partly just for the sake of helping out someone I know (and it's basically no inconvenince to me), and partly because the stakes were small enough that the money wasn't too relevant to me either way.
For the Stars million I started helping him a bit after he got in the money. With the stakes higher than in the other tournaments I'd helped him with I probably should have asked for some % up front, but he was still far from the big money and I had 4-5 tables going myself and was too distracted to really be too concerned about that, since it was still very unlikely he'd win anything big. If he made the final table I would have asked for a small %. The thing about selling the seat is also true, I told him that it was up to him and locking up a decent score wasn't a bad play since the money obviously meant a lot to him, but it would be tough to determine a fair price and he might always wonder what would have happened had he kept playing.
Anyways I was trying to stick to the facts but I'll offer one opinion at the end. Cole: Get your transaction history and pay back any money if it turns out you owe anyone. Then please don't waste the money taking shots at high stakes. If you're at all serious about playing this game work on your game a lot and build your own bankroll from this win. You got very lucky on Sunday but usually these high stakes shots don't work out so well. On the other hand with hard work you'd be surprised how much money you can make just grinding out 20/180s for example.
Mike
PS. Sorry to hear about your bad run lately HG, good luck getting a bankroll back together you obviously have the poker skills to do it.
Watever Cole, I can see easily how much i have sent to u. You are a scammer and a liar. 3 quarters of your reply is lies. I have all my chat logs with you, and i can email stars in 2 seconds to show how much i sent you. You even tried to get me to give u 2k on a scam once and i didnt say anything, again I have that chat log.
Also, please learn english you stupid fuck. Stop poker and finish highschool. EVERYONE ON THIS SITE SHOULD KNOW YOUR A SCAMMER AND A BEGGAR. You ask for stakes everywhere, well everyone DO NOT STAKE this person. He is weak tite and a scammer. End of story. U had a hollywoods7 account i believe before hollywoods17. Does stars know you have multi accounts?
I repeat, this guy wants stakes from people, and I give him a 0 on my staker review.
Just to clarify, 1. Cole told me Noone was helping him out. He told me this several times. Knock on Watts for sure.
2. The noah comment was a complete joke made up by me. A comment laced with LOL's. Wasn't serious, and if cole thought it was it shows his intelligence.
NOah wasnt even online, something he also knew. Guys a few fries short of a happy meal. Enjoy going busto you ungrateful scammer beggar.
My guess is that you came on here to berate another forum member and want a piece of his win. It is 250.00. If it would make you feel better, ask ne, I will give it to you and then you can stop all this crap.
Brent
Dude, get off his nuts. Me and him had an agreement, many agreements actually about $$ which he reneged on. You are missing the point. He scammed me before several times. Money xfers, last longers he didnt pay, and he tried to scam me outta 2k once. Luckily I read other forums where scammers abound, and i recognized it. If you think I am trying to heckle and harrass you dont get it. Cole asks for stakes from everyone. I made the mistake of stakin him and makin agreements with him involving money, he didnt honor these arrangements. I am trying to warn others and now starting to bitch abit at how bad he insulted me. Sorry if you don't like me callin him out, do yourself a favor and dont read the thread.
If you dont believe me stake cole. and BTW i got stars to send me my transaction histories for my own satisfaction. I am not about to cut and paste it all considering he wont even own up to it and deny it anyways.
HG, you've gone this far with theses accusations, you might as well post the transaction history.
I'd like to see the proof, as I'm sure some others would. I'd like to see how Cole would deniy your claims if there was 'black and white' evidence.
Again, best of luck.
Johnnie
If you dont already believe me, then you don't know me, I wouldnt waste my time for this. If you are really interested in seeing these then PM me. I am not going to post them here. Sorry if this ruins my cred a bit for some of you.
Bottom line is Cole knows what he did.
Look at it like this: I am just giving a review of a stakee, and reporting about my experiences that occured by someone that got my info through this forum, gained my trust, and then scammed me. This is why he should be banned. Anyone that thinks im being a douche should realize they are condoning beggars and scammers on this forum. Hopefully other members dont make the same mistakes as me.
if your intent was to warn us to not stake cole, fine. i'm sure he will have a hard time getting a stake from anyone here but it is pretty shitty to undermine someone's reputation then refuse to post the proof when you have it easily at hand. just my two cents - i'm not involved but i see this as an abuse of the forum. take it for what is worth but i hope others feel similarly.
best of luck to both of you. i doubt this will come to any sort of happy resolution.
HG - I don't think this is anybody's business, but you have decided to make it public. I can somewhat understand that since there is really no recourse for this sort of thing (if true), and you are using the forum as a surrogate court. Most members will (hopefully) base their decisions on facts, not accusations. This has nothing to do with your "cred", but simply the fact that strong accusations like these are easy to make whether true or not. Since the proof is so readily available, it should be presented IF you really want the forums help.
That said, I don't want to see the proof. I think this is a personal matter (as I stated earlier). You 2 work this out yourselves - keep the forum out of it. I agree with pkrfce - this is an abuse.
And as far as a warning to potential stakers, personally I wouldn't stake anybody I didn't have a good relationship with and a great amount of trust (as well as respect for their game), and a single accusation (even from a respected member of the community like yourself) wouldn't change that.
Great advice - thanks for making this thread somewhat useful Mike!
I suspect Harthgosh did stake him, albeit in a very unstructured manner which nearly always runs into problems once money is asked to be repaid (usually when the original lender runs into some money problems).
This Cole guy may or may not be nice but he hardly strikes me as someone who will handle finances in a professional manner (not ideal for a poker player), so it really could not come as a shock that he does not remember how often or for how much he was lent money. I suspect he has asked for money from a lot of people with intentions of paying back, though actual payback was likely less consistent.
I have to admit I find it interesting that dozens of examples of lending money without getting paid back were given. With all due respect, if this is entirely true then why did it take so many times to "clue in" that this was as the say a "risky lending situation."
I would suggest that posting some sort of transaction history would be useful in at least establishing where in the middle of the two stories the truth falls. Proof is always good.
I do not think anyone involved here had their reputations seriously damaged since frankly the value of the reputaions was not that significant anyways.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. (I think the famous butchering of this quote by G.Bush sounds much better, but I digress....)
I don't think posting transactions histories is appropriate. What does it solve? At some point, countless lending/staking, where a history of nonpayment is established, should lead to a certain amount of responsibility being placed on the lender.
pokerJAH
I knew Cole was a scammer before sunday, but I had a little faith left. I never thought Id get the money back from him earlier throughout the year, even though he told me plenty of times he'd pay it all back. I didn't care, and I'd learned my lesson.
Then Sunday rolls along and he tells me he needs my help, and that he will pay me back for my help. This was our deal, and stated repeatadly as I had grown wary of him.
He then offers me 33$ after he busts and I had helped him over an hour. I told him politely what about our deal, and what about the few hundreds he owed me in stakes, last longers and loans? He then signed off msn and blocked me.
I decided to tell the forum. Not to abuse the forum, but to warn the forum.
I really don't see how some of you people can attack me over this, and demand proof. Myself, a respected player and peer to many top pros, is trying to tell you guys that a 17 year old guy with obv no education is a scammer and a beggar on your site, that used this site as a vehicle to burn me. Pokerforum.ca can deal with it anyway they want.
I got a few pms to send and im done with this.
And to the guy that wants to send me 250, go ahead tyvm. Harthgosh on stars. ill sit at 3 6 plo and play like a maniac and you can all watch. If i win ill give all the money to sloth for a freeroll.
Go fuck yourself.
I am really not saying this to mock you, I am just not quite sure what you expect to accomplish as I doubt anyone else was rushing to stake him, you or anyone else who posts at this forum.
The only reason I suggested you offer some proof was so that you could validate the level at which this whole thing took place. Without it it just feels like you made very unstructured arrangements with a person who has no organizational ability or financial control, which frankly could only lead to the current outcome eventually.
In a nutshell - I suspect you got screwed, I suspect the other guy is too clueless to have screwed you on purpose and is probably a losing gambler (aside from a lucky finish) who will seek funding for his habit wherever possible, and forgets money lent to him as so much goes in and out. I question why you ever dealt with him in the first place.
you still bitter about a year ago huh? Our little flame war? Pretty fucking sad.. How old are you? You and your group of penny players trying to degrade me anychance u get. This is why I left this forum. Resentful grown men acting like babies.
How about in All Aces and Sloth's eyes?
Yes, I was trying to be nice to a young kid that liked poker. My empathy got the best of me. I fucked up with this guy. He always came across as nice and cool, and I was deceived. It wasn't like I gave him thousands either, but rather a few hundred, which I wipe my ass with.
I do not see what being a respected player and peer of pros has to do with this? You are trying to insult me... Why dont you go back to selling MTG cards.
ANd once i decided he was a scammer I cut him off and dropped it. Then the sunday thing happened, I gave him a chance to proove I was wrong, and he burned me again.