The 77 spot

actyper

Richard~;213578 wroteIt's funny, I think I disagree with every single thing you just said ^^'

Just looked at your post and I can't agree with you about your opponents chance of reshipping. 20+bbs is still ballsy to reship light final table bubble. I'm opening any 2 there if i'm mp.

Richard~

But he's opening into three reship stacks and a shortstack... If you were in villain's shoes, would you ever do this light in a tournament where you know they're competent enough to use their stacks? (plus you know that they think you're pushing the table around with a high pfr% )

Edit: Then again maybe we shouldn't assume villain is as good as you ^^'

Kristy

flatting is gross
flatting and leading a dry flop is more gross

I'd end up folding just because I'm really aggressive..I think it narrows his range significantly, but I think your justification for shoving in your situation is perfect.

(He usually has something good v. me and I'm not super-comfortable with 77 v. this tightened range.)

Wetts1012

Richard~;213591 wroteBut he's opening into three reship stacks and a shortstack... If you were in villain's shoes, would you ever do this light in a tournament where you know they're competent enough to use their stacks? (plus you know that they think you're pushing the table around with a high pfr% )

I would open very wide in this spot. There is alot of metagame in this post and my feel at the time is this isnt the case. There are 1700+ people in this tournament, and alot from the satellite structure.

If we are in the 100Rebuy with the 250 best players around I absolutely agree with you.

Richard~

Wetts1012;213593 wroteI would open very wide in this spot. There is alot of metagame in this post and my feel at the time is this isnt the case. There are 1700+ people in this tournament, and alot from the satellite structure.

If we are in the 100Rebuy with the 250 best players around I absolutely agree with you.

alright then, if we're not giving villain that much credit I'd reship all day. It'd probably be a crying reship but he's folding out a lot in this spot if he's not adapting making it the perfect spot to push and try to win some chips

JimmyHo

if you just call, you are still in the tournament when an A or Q comes on the flop and you can get away from the hand with minimal damage to your stack. Push and pray for your tournament sounds great in theory; obviously you are regretting that decision now. In retrospect, you got your chips in ahead and got sucked out on. Still a great run.

DennisG

Kristy_Sea;213592 wroteflatting is gross
flatting and leading a dry flop is more gross

Why? I don't get how flatting and leading with dry is any different than shoving here.

We flat...flop comes...we hit our set, sweet... We shove a dry flop, he can't call without hitting...if he has hit...no different than if we got it in preflop....we are giving him two opportunities to fold...ugly flop...we can let go and still be in fine shape.

UL Wetts, but very nice run!

Wetts1012

pokerJAH;213600 wrote Push and pray for your tournament sounds great in theory; obviously you are regretting that decision now.

Not at all. Just posting for discussion. I play thishand the same way again.

Wetts1012

DennisG;213608 wroteWhy? I don't get how flatting and leading with dry is any different than shoving here.

Personally, the reason I dont like this is it widens his calling range. I would prefer a fold.

If he is opening K10, 79ss, A8, etc. He is calling a shove if he makes any connection. Ex K9 on a 943 board or even K9 on a J93 board.

Shoving pre his calling range is much narrower. And this is a hand I dont want action with!

JimmyHo

Wetts1012;213611 wroteIf he is opening K10, 79ss, A8, etc.

would players be opening with these cards at this stage of a tournament with likely their largest payday within site? Personally I like the fold over the shove.

Kristy

DennisG;213608 wroteWhy? I don't get how flatting and leading with dry is any different than shoving here.

We flat...flop comes...we hit our set, sweet... We shove a dry flop, he can't call without hitting...if he has hit...no different than if we got it in preflop....we are giving him two opportunities to fold...ugly flop...we can let go and still be in fine shape.

UL Wetts, but very nice run!

lol..you don't seem to realize that you went from "Set mining" to "I heart my 77" by leading.

if you :h: your 77 why are you letting him see a flop in position for free with gtd. overcards? And worse still, if you insist on going to a flop with your "Super Sexy Seven Seven" ...Why aren't you maximizing the amount of chips in the pot by say..C/Ring his c-bet?

The answer is that your 77 isn't that sexy. Maybe you could argue with aces or kings for a pf call, but 77 is illogical.

DennisG

Kristy_Sea;213622 wrotelol..you don't seem to realize that you went from "Set mining" to "I heart my 77" by leading.

if you :h: your 77 why are you letting him see a flop in position for free with gtd. overcards? And worse still, if you insist on going to a flop with your "Super Sexy Seven Seven" ...Why aren't you maximizing the amount of chips in the pot by say..C/Ring his c-bet?

The answer is that your 77 isn't that sexy. Maybe you could argue with aces or kings for a pf call, but 77 is illogical.

I don't "heart" anything here....we have a valid hand with 6 players... This far in, I am looking to get to the top. If we hit our set, fantastic...if the flop is ugly, we can let it go and still have plenty of game to carry on...we are still middle of the pack...
When the dry flop comes, who gives a shit what our cards are? Granted, we do need something of value to make the call to start with...but, He is ONLY calling if he hits. How often does he hit?

If you want to play by the "set mining rules" no, we shouldn't be here...but poker is a game of situations is it not? I feel like this is a situation we need to take a stab at...he is giving us a pretty cheap shot at a set and likely steal. We are 6 handed..we need the blinds every bit as much as the next guy..

Don't get me wrong, I am not at all against the shove, just looking at validation for a safer "look" at the flop. I don't think flatting is a bad move. Apparently I need to learn more.

Wetts....while I know we shouldn't be results oriented...what was the flop?

Richard~

DennisG;213631 wroteI don't "heart" anything here....we have a valid hand with 6 players... This far in, I am looking to get to the top. If we hit our set, fantastic...if the flop is ugly, we can let it go and still have plenty of game to carry on...we are still middle of the pack...
When the dry flop comes, who gives a shit what our cards are? Granted, we do need something of value to make the call to start with...but, He is ONLY calling if he hits. How often does he hit?

If you want to play by the "set mining rules" no, we shouldn't be here...but poker is a game of situations is it not? I feel like this is a situation we need to take a stab at...he is giving us a pretty cheap shot at a set and likely steal. We are 6 handed..we need the blinds every bit as much as the next guy..

Don't get me wrong, I am not at all against the shove, just looking at validation for a safer "look" at the flop. I don't think flatting is a bad move. Apparently I need to learn more.

Wetts....while I know we shouldn't be results oriented...what was the flop?

Yah, let's take a flop OOP and play the guessing game against a strong loose agressive opponent with more chips than us who is obviously very hard to range up. Any more good ideas? ._.

(What do we do when the flop comes 228 and he has the 89hh? Not to mention my personal favorite, flop comes A high and he bets the QJ airball)

Kristy

DennisG;213631 wrotejust looking at validation for a safer "look" at the flop.

You aren't getting it. (the validation, I mean)

Hobbes

Richard~;213632 wrote (What do we do when the flop comes 228 and he has the 89hh? Not to mention my personal favorite, flop comes A high and he bets the QJ airball)

Activate "Soul Read" mode ;)

Wetts1012

pokerJAH;213620 wrotewould players be opening with these cards at this stage of a tournament with likely their largest payday within site? Personally I like the fold over the shove.

My open range would be this wide, so I have to assume his is.

jdAA88

Kristy is completely right Dennis...

DennisG

Richard~;213632 wroteYah, let's take a flop OOP and play the guessing game against a strong loose agressive opponent with more chips than us who is obviously very hard to range up. Any more good ideas? ._.

(What do we do when the flop comes 228 and he has the 89hh?)

The same thing we do when A:we shove and run into KK or JJ or AA...etc.. or B: flop comes 9j5, we shove and he has aa, kk, jj, etc... or C: we fold and don't see any cards for the next 30 hands and are forced into playing A9o.
We go home, we get over it.

What happens when we do get a 7 on the flop? We possibly double up and are in great position to win. Flop comes 9j5...we shove and he folds. we can shove any number of flops and he can fold...

Good ideas? Yeah, I have lots..lol..loosen the string on your panties and play some cards..If you want to be condescending, I can too.

[deleted]

now wetts would you have called if you were the villian. he can't have you on less than aq+ or pp....

Wetts1012

darbday;213639 wrotenow wetts would you have called if you were the villian. he can't have you on less than aq+ or pp....

My calling range in his spot is AQ+, 1010+, for half my stack this deep.

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