No problem man. I get it: Easier to dismiss someone as a "Nazi" than have to contend with their ideas 
Discuss over a beer some time. 
I love politics
Bfillmaff Easier to dismiss someone as a "Nazi" than have to contend with their ideas
It is! Fun too.
But what ideas of Trump or Elon's are you suggesting are going to make everything great again? Banning trans athletes? Denying (that particular type of) gender-affirming care? Renaming the water? Dropping funding for education? Allowing Musk to influence government policies and procedures despite not being an official arm of the goverment, and not being voted in? Firing people who were hired as "DEI" (which, fun fact, turned out to affect mostly women!), Withdrawing from the WHO and Paris accords? Ending brithright citizenship? Sending law enforcement to arrest people without warrants or reasonable articulable suspiscion (they arrested a veteran because he didn't have his papers on him - eating while brown), restoring and expanding the EXPECTATIONS of the death penalty (remember that thread? That was a good one, and hey, everyone that was pro-capital punishment? Blood's on your hands there),
Sadly, I can go on... but this is just in the last what, 6 weeks? And I didn't even touch on his greatest hits of illegal immigrants and shit. He's a bad person, and I'm tired of pretending there's a silver lining for anyone that isn't a gajillionaire.
Mark
But what ideas of Trump or Elon's are you suggesting are going to make everything great again?
Your list is actually pretty good, I just had to re-word them a bit for accuracy:
Banning trans athletes?
Ensuring fairness in athletics by maintaining biological distinctions, thus safeguarding the integrity and competitive equity of women's sports.
Denying (that particular type of) gender-affirming care?
Protecting children from irreversible decisions that they might regret later in life, advocating for a more cautious and informed approach to youth healthcare.
Renaming the water?
I don't know... trolling the libs? lol
Dropping funding for education?
Streamlining government spending by eliminating inefficiencies in educational bureaucracies, thereby redirecting funds towards more direct, effective educational initiatives.
Allowing Musk to influence government policies and procedures despite not being an official arm of the goverment, and not being voted in?
Bringing in Musk to find waste/corruption in goverment exactly as he said he would before people voted for him. Side note: Look at the shit being uncovered already, it's bananas. Uncovering corruption/waste should be 100% bipartisan.
Firing people who were hired as "DEI" (which, fun fact, turned out to affect mostly women!) Moving towards a merit-based system that eliminates discrimination by not giving preferential treatment based on race or gender, aiming for true equality in employment.
Promoting equality by removing race and sex from the hiring process
Withdrawing from the WHO and Paris accords?
WHO - a globalist scam hiding behind the world of medicine
Paris Accord - a globalist scam hiding behind the idea of climate change
Ending brithright citizenship?
Preventing "birth tourism" and ensuring citizenship is given to those who have a genuine connection to the nation, not just those born on U.S. soil.
Sending law enforcement to arrest people without warrants or reasonable articulable suspiscion (they arrested a veteran because he didn't have his papers on him - eating while brown)
Will agree that IF that were the case, that's fucked up and wrong... however, here we have another case of media spin towards the narrative. A couple of searches later reveals not so much "eating while brown" and more of "convicted of a felony while on a green card". "Marlon Parris is facing deportation due to a prior non-violent felony drug conviction. Parris, although a legal resident with a green card, faces potential removal proceedings due to his criminal conviction." But to be clear: totally with you on this one, in that anyone going around asking for papers without warrants/suspisicion can go fuck themselves, as it's none of their business for anyone to prove themselves innocent. (And yes that's a pandemic vax pass reference too... ha ha)
restoring and expanding the EXPECTATIONS of the death penalty
Ensuring justice for the most heinous crimes, reinforcing the law-and-order stance. In other words: FRY EM.
Bfillmaff Banning trans athletes?
Ensuring fairness in athletics by maintaining biological distinctions, thus safeguarding the integrity and competitive equity of women's sports.
Neither of us are experts in this, I can show as many studies showing that the HRT negates any advantage, and you'll respond with similar arguments that it does, and then we'll just get into arguments about whose is more reliable.
Bfillmaff Denying (that particular type of) gender-affirming care?
Protecting children from irreversible decisions that they might regret later in life, advocating for a more cautious and informed approach to youth healthcare.
Hormone blockers are reversible, further gender affirming treatments are usually made by adults. I'm sure again we could come up with same studies again, resulting again in reliability arguments.
Bfillmaff Bringing in Musk to find waste/corruption in goverment exactly as he said he would before people voted for him. Side note: Look at the shit being uncovered already, it's bananas. Uncovering corruption/waste should be 100% bipartisan.
I haven't seen the stats on everything yet, but I'll keep an eye on it... I have a feeling it isn't just the efficiencies they're targeting. Please share some of these already uncovered wasteful spending (and, FWIW, I agree that Trump is doing a lot of exaclty what he said he would, but that's the problem).
Bfillmaff Firing people who were hired as "DEI" (which, fun fact, turned out to affect mostly women!) Moving towards a merit-based system that eliminates discrimination by not giving preferential treatment based on race or gender, aiming for true equality in employment.
Promoting equality by removing race and sex from the hiring process
That's all fine and good once race and sex are no longer part of the discrimination people face. This is an attempt to offset some of the harm that has done. As two white males, I'm sure we're the best people to speak on this. However, one fun thought experiment: Two identical candidates, one straight white male, one a POC / person of a visible minority of your choice. Some might say that it's a coin flip then, but the fact is the latter candidate has statistcally overcome more challenges, faced more bigotry and other hurdles, so is actually probably a better candidate.
Bfillmaff Withdrawing from the WHO and Paris accords?
WHO - a globalist scam hiding behind the world of medicine
Paris Accord - a globalist scam hiding behind the idea of climate change
Who said something about media biasing their opinions? Also, not sure if I'm detecting a vibe of climate change denial?
Bfillmaff Ending brithright citizenship?
Preventing "birth tourism" and ensuring citizenship is given to those who have a genuine connection to the nation, not just those born on U.S. soil.
Sure, that happens, but like.... Elon is whining about the lack of birth rates, so maybe having more babies is a good thing, and having them being defaulted to full citizens seems efficient and beneficial? Unless they're somehow "undesireable"? I agree systems getting taken advantage of is bad, but "fixing" it at the cost of what the system is meant for is harmful to people, which needs to be avoided.
Bfillmaff Will agree that IF that were the case, that's fucked up and wrong... however, here we have another case of media spin towards the narrative. A couple of searches later reveals not so much "eating while brown" and more of "convicted of a felony while on a green card". "Marlon Parris is facing deportation due to a prior non-violent felony drug conviction. Parris, although a legal resident with a green card, faces potential removal proceedings due to his criminal conviction." But to be clear: totally with you on this one, in that anyone going around asking for papers without warrants/suspisicion can go fuck themselves, as it's none of their business for anyone to prove themselves innocent. (And yes that's a pandemic vax pass reference too... ha ha)
Different guy, puerto rican veteran was arrested at a seafood shop because he wasn't carrying his passport.... and this was directly due to Trump and his EO's
https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/ice-agents-raid-seafood-store-detain-u-s-military-veteran/
https://fox59.com/news/national-world/ice-agents-raid-nj-seafood-store-detain-us-military-veteran/
Bfillmaff restoring and expanding the EXPECTATIONS of the death penalty
Ensuring justice for the most heinous crimes, reinforcing the law-and-order stance. In other words: FRY EM.
Pretty sure this is said in jest, but I really hope so. It doesn't work, and the only justification is if you want revenge, not justice.
Mark
In communist Canada under the Trudope regime. Foods rots on the shelves as #WeThePeople
go hungry. Having to choose between paying rent and eating is a real struggle to the working class.
America was founded on the premise of "taxation without representation", now the 1% gets representation without taxation.
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Hormone blockers are reversible, further gender affirming treatments are usually made by adults. I'm sure again we could come up with same studies again, resulting again in reliability arguments.
It's a hot topic and I take this as an offer to "agree to disagree" because we're so far apart. I'll accept your offer and just say "let's hope you are right." (Just know that IF you are wrong, we will have done unimaginable damage to children, at large scale.)
(Re: DOGE) Please share some of these already uncovered wasteful spending
The one in the news right now is the USAID program. On the surface, you would think that is for "aid to foreign countries"... but it's become another example of "The Name Of Our Cause Sounds Good So We Can Do Whatever The Fuck We Want with No Accountability" (noticing a theme here?)
Personally, when I think of foreign aid, I think of helping build water supplies, helping improve living conditions, helping displaced individuals, etc. Instead, the US taxpayers extremely generous foreign aid dollars goes to bullshit like:
- Funding for an LGBTQ Advocacy Program in Serbia - Aimed at improving the inclusion of LGBTQ people in the workplace, with a commitment of about $1.5 million over three years.
- Transgender Health Clinic in India - USAID funded a transgender health clinic in India run by transgender individuals.
- Funding for a Transgender Opera in Colombia - $47,000 was allocated for a transgender-themed opera.
- Transgender Comic Book in Peru - $32,000 was spent on creating a transgender comic book.
- Sex Changes in Guatemala - $2 million was used for funding sex change operations.
- Anti-Israel, Antisemitic Songs Production in Gaza - $3 million was reportedly given to a Gaza rap artist to produce anti-Israel songs.
- DEI Initiatives in Serbia - $1.5 million was invested to advance diversity, equity, and inclusion in Serbia's workplaces.
- DEI Musical in Ireland - $70,000 was allocated for a musical focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion.
- Funding for Moroccan Pottery Classes - $2 million was spent on pottery classes in Morocco.
- Sesame Street Show in Iraq - $20 million was used to promote a local version of Sesame Street.
- Fashion Week for Ukrainians in Paris - Funding was provided for Ukrainians to attend Paris Fashion Week.
- Electric Vehicles for Vietnam - $2.5 million was allocated for electric vehicles in Vietnam, part of a green energy initiative.
- Funding to Print Personalized Contraceptives - Money was spent on printing personalized contraceptives in developing countries.
- Unfinished Power Plant in Afghanistan - $335 million was spent on a diesel-fueled power plant that was never operational because locals couldn't afford diesel.
- Unsafe Dam Construction - $300-500 million was spent on a dam in Afghanistan deemed too unsafe to use.
- Non-existent Healthcare Facilities - Millions were spent on healthcare facilities that were reported not to exist.
- Cancelled Projects with Retained Payments - $70 million in contractor fees for projects cancelled before starting, where contractors kept the money.
- Police Training Facility in Afghanistan - $500k was spent on a police training facility that disintegrated in the rain due to poor construction materials (sand).
- Unsafe Cargo Planes - Nearly $500 million was paid for 22 cargo planes that were unsafe to fly and later sold for scrap at a fraction of the cost.
- Incomplete Road in Afghanistan - $249 million was spent on a road that was never completed.
- Gaza Pier - $300 million was used to build a pier attached to Gaza, which was destroyed by waves, with an additional $200 million spent to dismantle it.
- Funding to EcoHealth Alliance - Millions were given to EcoHealth Alliance, involved in research at the Wuhan lab, which stirred controversy.
I'm sure there are some holes to be poked in some of those, but it shows the trend. Taxpayer funded political activism at best, or flat out money laundering schemes at worst. And that's just one agency, and only a couple of weeks. Next he's talking about looking into politicians who make $280K per year that are accumulating 30M Net Worths (The Pelosi effect lol) - or the 150 year old people receiving their social security cheques. HOW is this a bad thing, other than "we don't like the guy doing the looking??"
As two white males, I'm sure we're the best people to speak on this.
DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER??? (OK just being a dick here... moving on.)
However, one fun thought experiment: Two identical candidates, one straight white male, one a POC / person of a visible minority of your choice. Some might say that it's a coin flip then, but the fact is the latter candidate has statistcally overcome more challenges, faced more bigotry and other hurdles, so is actually probably a better candidate.
This is literally a fantasy though. We're not talking about situations where "two exactly equal candidates are up for the job" - we're talking about injecting racial / gender bias into policy. As in, reducing the pool in the early stages based on race / gender. I get it, they are trying to solve for the struggles you mention... but no one is qualified to do that, let alone measure those struggles. No one is willing to admit they are making things worse either - because the intentions were good and that's all that matters. The law of unintended consequences hits this shit hard on so many levels here. People who earned their positions get labelled a DEI hires. People who did not earn their positions get thrown into positions where they aren't qualified. We ramp up division. We dedicate resources on whole departments created to keep track of all this shit instead of being productive. And in the end.. what did we fix... really just the optics of "look how many x race we have". I'm sorry, but you're flat out wrong here.
(re Death penalty) Pretty sure this is said in jest, but I really hope so. It doesn't work, and the only justification is if you want revenge, not justice.
Nope. Not familiar with that thread you mentioned, or at least can't remember it... but to make it clear, I'm even OK with you calling it revenge and would be fine with a John Wick style implementation. There are certain crimes there is no coming back from. Not sorry.
edit - almost forgot about this one:
Also, not sure if I'm detecting a vibe of climate change denial?
Let's say Climate Change is real for sake of discussion. The lefts approaches to solving it are so fucked up that just going ahead and destroying the planet would be a reasonable alternative. Luckily, most of the "science" is on the same level of "settled" as Covid was, and we're probably fine. 
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You are wrong. I watched the press conference as well and Trump never suggested drinking bleach. He was suggesting to inject it. So much for personal recall. You are a dubious witness Mark.
Women need safe spaces too and a fair playing field. I don't think you would find any woman feeling comfortable with this person being naked in their locker room, who still had their male genitalia. Which did happen.
https://images.app.goo.gl/RuXZDXXrUgKara7Y9
You can't tell me that this person suddenly became a great swimmer. This is clearly unfair to women.
DEI? Read this ridiculous crap.
From the National Post today.
All federal scientific funding agencies are now following the lead of the Department of Energy science office, which is the largest funder of physical sciences in the country. Following Trumpās executive order, the office promptly ended the requirement for all scientific grant proposals to include a diversity plan, formally known as a Promoting Inclusive and Equitable Research (PIER) Plan as part of the proposal. PIER Plans, which had been mandated since 2022, were to ādescribe the activities and strategies of the applicant to promote equity and inclusion as an intrinsic element to advancing scientific excellence.ā Plans that had already been submitted would not be reviewed going forward.
These plans were required for all fields; a mathematical physicist studying string theory in 11 dimensions, for example, would have to discuss how their work actively promoted āanti-racism.ā This sounds like fiction, but it isnāt. Many grant review committees and university hiring committees would first read DEI-related statements and filter out candidates who were not sufficiently committed to this social justice imperative before their actual research proposals could be read. For example, Daniel Ortner, a contributor to The Hill, reported that at UC Berkeley, 76 per cent of applicants for a faculty position were rejected based on their diversity statements without looking at their research records.
This crap is happening in Canada. "chanicka" wore out his welcome pretty quick at the Waterloo school board but not before trustee Mike Ramsay got suspended (a black person! ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ) for trying to speak out against the DEI cabal running the board at the time. BTW chanicka doesn't capitalize his name because he doesn't want to consider himself more important than trees, plants and dirt which aren't capitalized. And this guy was hired to determine policy for the education of our children.
And let's not forget the poor principal who upon trying to have a reasonable discussion had his career ruined and eventually committed suicide after speaking up during a DEI indoctrination session.
Finally birthright citizenship isn't really a thing in most of the rational world. The Americans invented it 175 years ago after the civil war as primarily a means to ensure blacks born in the US were guaranteed citizenship, at a time when it took weeks to travel between countries. It's not the only amendment in the US constitution that is now outdated and the US is now stuck with. Just because it is in the constitution doesn't mean it is still relevant and unassailable (hint guns).
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Moose that post is so on point that I won't even bite on the guns thing.
The world is healing... ( we couldn't even talk about this stuff before - like the example in your article with the career suicide and/or actual suicide once the mob piled on)
*Re Injecting bleach: .. I pulled the video to see what I was missing. Context here is a multi hour unscripted press conference, with the clip in question directly following a doctor's presentation about disinfectants and UV light. He's quite obviously speculating having just watched the presentation, and the quote is:
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that? By injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs... So it would be interesting to check that. You`re going to have to use medical doctors - but it sounds interesting to me."
I just have to say: if you watched this and your takeaway was to go inject bleach... you weren't going to make it anyway.
Trump Valentines card
Such romantic ideals.
I like that trump wants to protect Americans and ensure the wasteful spending (money laundering) is stopped). I have always said that wouldnāt complain about being taxed 50% on income, property taxed and sales taxes to death if we can see some, any benefit. But food bank usage is up. People are paycheque to paycheque and economy is is bad shape (thatās why interest rates are down and the usd vs cad is so far apart). Investment and brains leaving the country at a rapid pace. I wish our government would want to help us become more affluent. . Carney is literally wef/ Trudeau 2.0. I know Iām a conspiracy theorist, but weāve been right over the last 4-5 years about it all.
Question: if carney is installed ( selected not elected) and delays the election that soooo many Canadians want, until 2026, Will you believe that the government is corrupt and we are in a tyrannical/ dictator state? If not, what will it take to convince you? Wake up please.
torontotablecpt oh and climate changeā¦ give me a fucking break
I am so glad I started this thread...
I am so glad I started this thread...
Haha yeah this one's on you comp. To be fair though, it's always a respectful disagreement with this group: In theory we should be calling each other names by now.
As a break from controversy, here is a dog photo. No way that can be politicized! 
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advocating for 51st state
Hell no. I think this whole fight vs Canada was a mistake on his part. Not because he can't win the fight - but because it was a bully move with zero diplomacy. He's picking on us while we are weak (weak economy, weak leadership), and at the most basic level it's a shitty thing to do to a neighbour / ally.
That said:
My original point, and first post in the thread, was that it's nothing compared to the damage done by our own Liberal party, and I think its hypocritical to focus on the orange man when we were silent (or worse: cheering) as we made ourselves vulnerable to it.
Intentionally hindering our energy sector, taxing us into submission, and nothing but high govt spending at zero ROI. Simply put, I think it's hypocritical that the people loudest on Trump destroying our economy were the ones who voted for Trudeau to destroy it. I think the calls for national unity don't land as hard when you only have to look back a few years to find examples of some of our most patriotic people being thrown to the wolves because they held "unacceptable views."
Then there's the element of what started all of this. He just said "fix the drugs and illegal immigrants coming over our border, and there will be no tariffs"... whether or not its a real issue, we had the opportunity to engage with this, but instead of even asking questions like "what would satisfy you, Mr Trump?" we went right to hardball. We will not win a trade war with the USA, it's as simple as that. Not that we should roll over - but Justin did not even pursue this line, knowing that the highly visible trade war would take the focus off of his own embarrassing track record and torched economy.
So maybe if we can call an election and put someone in that Trump respects more than Governor Blackface? No. Instead: he shuts down parliament and we are installing another globalist puppet, unelected this time, in his place.
This is what people voted for
3 times.
And this is what we get.
For the record, not one vote from me even when legal weed was involved. That should tell you how serious I am
PS Carbon Tax goes up 20% on April 1st... get your Canadian Flags ready guys.
Bfillmaff isnt the salary of all those 338 douchebags going up also on April 1st too. I mean the Governor General, who does f all, got a raise recently. Why not? All the 338, who work for us, can vote for their own salary increase. I mean what a racket.
and economy is is bad shape
I think there is a Canadian equivalent to the !HB work visa which was of recent controversy due to Elon Husk (totally not a Martian). The 'Temporary Foreign Worker' program where corpo's are abusing it. Mainly used for service industry. Has been expanding into white collar jobs. Have heard of people at Sun Life losing their jobs to workers overseas.
People are only making a fuss now that white collar jobs are being replaced.
A "corporation" will place a job advert at below market salary. Then after nobody applies. Which obviously who would work for less money than what is industry standard. They go to gov with application. "Hey look we cant find Canadians to do the job". Which part of the application process have to prove they already tried to find an employee here. Then the corpo imports employee from overseas. And pays them less.
Rome fell shorty after importing too many slaves. Vandals and Goths fuct shit up once they out numbered.
and economy is is bad shape
and brains leaving the country at a rapid pace.
I know Iām a conspiracy theorist, but weāve been right over the last 4-5 years about it all.
There is no "conspiracy" it's simply GREED. The 'Brain Drain'(Canadians relocating to USA for better paying jobs) has been a problem since Avro. USA is an economic power house. Moving to where the pastures are greener is only natural.
I wish our government would want to help us become more affluent.
Government and corporations are in bed together and dont care about us. We are expendable work horses to them. Government lies to get in power then keep things business as usual. Catering policy to benefit corpo's not 'the poeple'(citizens) the constituents that elected them.
All any politico party cares about is getting re-elected.
Take DoFo he made many promises to get elected and didn't do diddly squat. Except institute policy that had direct benefits for his cronies. I regret not voting that that it matters ( https://youtu.be/SEH9SLG4X9E?si=FPbj86w4AB20nd0C ) but only like 30% of all Ontarian's voted. DoFO promised many things.
None of election promises are legally binding.
DoFo promised many things including new train to northern Ontario and new Highway 7 (between Guelph and Kitchener). Nothing but an empty promise to get re-elected. He's saying the same rhetoric this time around. We wont get fooled again? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NzLs-xSss0
DoFo is pushing to expand mining into 'ring of fire'(mineral rich area in northern Ontario). Pretending like it's a campaign promise. But it likely some backdoor deal with mining corpo's and he's making it seem like he's doing Ontarians a favour. While really filling his cronies pockets with tax payer subsidies.
Why should tax payers fund corporate expansions?
For example the $12million dollars of tax payer monies given to Loblaws. Loblaws is a thriving profitable corporation. IT SHOULD BE RECEIVING ZERO TAX PAYERS MONEY. It'd be interesting if people on the Loblaws board of directors have connections to politicians. That'd be gerrymandering?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/loblaws-rebate-conservatives-1.5091753
If I remember correctly from CBC news reporting it's fairly common for people on corporate Boards of Directors to have close social connections to politicians. The so called or proverbial 'old boys club'.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-industry-minister-joins-rogers-executive-1.6818806
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/accounting-firms-recruited-cra-justice-staff-1.3526762
Will you believe that the government is corrupt and we are in a tyrannical / dictator state?
From my point of view this society is more of a Corporate Fiefdom. Most are mere serfs. Did you know that cities are incorporated and run like a business? So municipal "government" workers are just another 'employee'. Being employed by the government merely means that is someones current "job". Albeit a unionized well payed one? Are you against unionized workers earning a living?
Will the ants rise up? Or get "woke", wake up, to what ? What's the alternative ?
"Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
āDiversity is fundamental to creating a thriving and successful financial sector that reflects Canadian values.ā
Lol what? Your government at work.
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Paywall...
I must admit, it's hard to find a news source on either side of the border that is truly neutral.