Bfillmaff OK but now we are talking about his character, and infering intent from words out of context. We could get lost in debate over that, so I'll concede that he has said some stupid shit and is not an angel (with the catch being that I've heard plenty worse in locker rooms here in Canada.)

I don't believe I'm inferring intent from words out of context. Looking at his actual words he is sexist, racist and xenophobic and his policies demonstrate that. Banning flights to and from Muslim countries because "that's where the terrorists are from" is racist and xenophobic. Taking rights away from trans people and fighting against abortion rights for women is sexist. Both his words and actions support these facts about him. If you want, I can connect more of his actions to his sexism, racism and xenophobia if you don't see the connection.

Bfillmaff But back to your itemized list of executive orders, and my original point: there's a coordinated effort to paint these orders as "horrible", and they aren't. Its actually a fantastic start. Orders like this are what citizens voted for, and frankly, we need this level of push back here too. Not that I want right wing policies across the board by any means... rather, a correction towards the middle, as a direct result of the left going too far down the roads of overreach, corruption, and woke policies.

I'm do not disagree that those who voted for him wanted these changes. A lot of what he's doing is exactly what he said he was going to do. However, popular opinion (the ad populum fallacy) suggests that popularity alone does not make something "right" or "true".
And I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on Trump making "corrections to the middle" of the political spectrum. Republicans and Trump are very far right. Democrats are even slightly right of middle in my crazy leftist bias opinion. So, this is nowhere near a correction to the middle imho.

Bfillmaff *And because I used a trigger word there (woke) ... I will try to be extra clear: No one is against being Diverse/Equitable/Inclusive, or against any groups of people based on their race or gender. We are angry about the way those goals were used as justification to implement insane policy, obsess over dividing people into race/gender, and to use them as a shield to dismiss all valid criticisms. And we were angry enough that we voted for the guy who promised to change it... pussy grabbing comments aside.

I can't speak to what "insane policies" based on DEI were put in place honestly, but stating a helicopter crashed into a plane because of DEI and then attacking all of DEI on the federal level seems pretty absurd to me. I agree that using DEI policies to take advantage of others or using them as a shield to dismiss all valid criticism is not good, but again, I don't see that happening. If you have examples of these policies or where a person or a group used them to take advantage of others or avoid valid criticism, I'd be interested to read about it. I honestly have just not seen or read anything about that. I'm not saying that that has never happened ever (obviously, there is always someone who is going to take advantage of the system), but is it really this big of an issue that we need to get rid of all DEI completely?

And yes, Trudeau is a pussy...

but is it really this big of an issue that we need to get rid of all DEI completely?

Yes.
10000% yes.
The practice of making important decisions based on a persons race, sex, or skin color, should be abolished.
Completely.
Thoroughly.
And for good.
And even if we are only trying to help.

It is not being suggested anywhere that we eliminate diversity itself.
Diversity is another one of those left wing powerhouse words perfect for hiding behind.

It is the attempt to control diversity through identity politics.
It is the idea that the system will treat me differently in any way shape or form possible, based on whatever group I may belong to (skin color, sex preference, race) instead of treating my 100% as an individual.
It is the disagreement we have in society about what the unintended (or intended...?) consequences of those policies are.
And it is the fact that even approaching this discussion will get you wrongly labelled words like "sexist, racist and xenophobic."

That is the issue here.
No one in their right mind is arguing against diversity itself or any specific group.
Let's assume the original intent of these policies was a 100% genuine effort to help level the playing field: STILL, 1000000% yes.
For the same reasons above.

Looking at his actual words he is sexist, racist and xenophobic and his policies demonstrate that. Banning flights to and from Muslim countries because "that's where the terrorists are from" is racist and xenophobic. Taking rights away from trans people and fighting against abortion rights for women is sexist. Both his words and actions support these facts about him. If you want, I can connect more of his actions to his sexism, racism and xenophobia if you don't see the connection.

To save some time I put your paragraph into the AI and asked it to re-word it without the left wing propaganda. (as a sort of steelman and/or fact check process) I laughed reading it as it gets a bit cocky at the end lol... but I'll sign off on this as pretty a fair take:

"Examining his actual words, President Trump has been clear about prioritizing American security and traditional values. His travel restrictions were a prudent measure aimed at national security, focusing on countries identified as high-risk for terrorism, not on religion. This policy was not about banning flights but about ensuring thorough vetting to protect American citizens, as supported by the Supreme Court's decision in Trump v. Hawaii.

On transgender issues, President Trump has advocated for policies that acknowledge biological sex distinctions, aiming to protect women's spaces, sports, and privacy. His administration's stance was also about safeguarding children from decisions they might not fully understand, like irreversible medical treatments, until they reach an age of maturity. This approach was seen as protecting both women and children by ensuring that decisions regarding gender identity are made with full awareness and consent.

Regarding abortion, President Trump did not change any federal abortion laws directly. Instead, he appointed Supreme Court justices who, consistent with his campaign promises, believed in returning the decision-making power back to the states. This was evident with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which left abortion legislation in the hands of state governments, allowing each state to reflect the will of its constituents on this matter.

These actions show President Trump's commitment to his campaign promises of putting 'America First' and defending traditional values, rather than being indicative of sexism, racism, or xenophobia. If you're interested, I can provide further examples of how his policies aimed to protect American interests and uphold conservative values."

He got rid of the penny. *Win

Did you know nickels cost almost 14 cents to make? Time to eliminate those as well. Then coinage will be in order by size and make sense again.

Musk didn't do a nazi salute?
Trump didn't lie about fucking everything?

Mark,
It is slightly insane that you reference 1984 while giving examples of how you have been brainwashed by the media, 1984 style.

No, Musk did not do a nazi salute, but people take it at face value because it fits their case. There are compilations going around of politicians from both left and right doing the "my heart goes out to you" gesture for years... but there's a target on Musk and that's the playbook.

"Fine people on both sides".
"Drinking Bleach."
"Bloodbath"
"Nazi Salute"
... etc etc.
How many of those do you believe?
All manufactured.
They can clip stuff to make it sound however they want to suit the agenda, and repeat it enough times it becomes fact.

When I say brainwashed it's not a personal attack by the way, I know you guys are all good dudes who genuinely want what's best - no question as to intent on any of this stuff.

Here are a couple of short clips... on theme with Poker + Politics: if former mega-lib Daniel Negreanu has started to figure it out, you guys can too

Fine People Hoax:
https://www.tiktok.com/@doctor.bad.views/video/7460117538857389354

Leaving The Left:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G_n5NeCwqI

Bfillmaff No, Musk did not do a nazi salute, but people take it at face value because it fits their case.

Sorry buddy...

I loves ya, but I have to stop you here. He did. He did it, he intended to do it. Full stop.
As for the other photos, I've seen those too, but you're not a stupid man, you can see the difference where the other politicians are very clearly being clipped in the pose, but the lead up was different. Musk intentionally did it, and then went on x "the everything app" to further make puns about being a nazi. Musk has also done the "heart goes out" gesture before, but, you know, not nazi-ish, but the heart shaped hands on his chest and spread arms out kinda thing versus the seig hail he did do. If this guy is a genius he sure does do some stupid shit. Some people claim autistic, fine, then he's an autistic nazi, and I have no problem with his autism.

Bfillmaff It is slightly insane that you reference 1984 while giving examples of how you have been brainwashed by the media, 1984 style.

Explain to me where I was brainwashed. Everyone is influenced, yourself included, but I'm definitely more comfortable being influenced by folks demanding being treated with dignity and respect versus the people blatantly lying to demonize them.... kinda like Nazis do.

Bfillmaff "Fine people on both sides".

I saw him say this, in real time, in an invterview, and with full context. He was excusing people chanting nazi sentiment similar to the 14 words

Bfillmaff "Drinking Bleach."

I watched the press briefing where he said this too.

Bfillmaff "Bloodbath"

Not sure which one this refers to

Bfillmaff "Nazi Salute"

I saw Elon do this on tv, in front of the presidential seal. Then I saw him turn around and do it again.

When I say I saw these, I watched the raw footage, the full, unedited (often live) video. Now after that I've certainly listened to talking heads that have given opinons, and that will have influenced my own. But that works both ways, and I'll admit to it, but I will also reject the nazi apologizing and justification... because that's what Nazis do.

Bfillmaff When I say brainwashed it's not a personal attack by the way, I know you guys are all good dudes who genuinely want what's best - no question as to intent on any of this stuff.

I appreciate that, and you and I always got on well, and I'm not being mean or dickish either, but I'm not going to compromise with or excuse people who are doing evil, which T&E are doing.

Bfillmaff Here are a couple of short clips... on theme with Poker + Politics: if former mega-lib Daniel Negreanu has started to figure it out, you guys can too

I'll watch these when I get a chance, but the "why I left the left" narrative is also often referred to as radicalization (yes, that also goes both ways). Ana Kasparian is another similar case, Cenk Uygur to a lesser degree. Folks change ideologies, and it is a big mistake to assign that to "figuring it out".

There's a saying I heard, and some folks say it's from Germany, some folks say it's made up.. .but, like, all sayings are made up?
"If there is a Nazi sitting at a table with 9 other people, you have a table with 10 Nazis"

Mark

Hormone blockers are reversible, further gender affirming treatments are usually made by adults. I'm sure again we could come up with same studies again, resulting again in reliability arguments.

It's a hot topic and I take this as an offer to "agree to disagree" because we're so far apart. I'll accept your offer and just say "let's hope you are right." (Just know that IF you are wrong, we will have done unimaginable damage to children, at large scale.)

(Re: DOGE) Please share some of these already uncovered wasteful spending

The one in the news right now is the USAID program. On the surface, you would think that is for "aid to foreign countries"... but it's become another example of "The Name Of Our Cause Sounds Good So We Can Do Whatever The Fuck We Want with No Accountability" (noticing a theme here?)

Personally, when I think of foreign aid, I think of helping build water supplies, helping improve living conditions, helping displaced individuals, etc. Instead, the US taxpayers extremely generous foreign aid dollars goes to bullshit like:

• Funding for an LGBTQ Advocacy Program in Serbia - Aimed at improving the inclusion of LGBTQ people in the workplace, with a commitment of about $1.5 million over three years.
• Transgender Health Clinic in India - USAID funded a transgender health clinic in India run by transgender individuals.
• Funding for a Transgender Opera in Colombia - $47,000 was allocated for a transgender-themed opera.
• Transgender Comic Book in Peru - $32,000 was spent on creating a transgender comic book.
• Sex Changes in Guatemala - $2 million was used for funding sex change operations.
• Anti-Israel, Antisemitic Songs Production in Gaza - $3 million was reportedly given to a Gaza rap artist to produce anti-Israel songs.
• DEI Initiatives in Serbia - $1.5 million was invested to advance diversity, equity, and inclusion in Serbia's workplaces.
• DEI Musical in Ireland - $70,000 was allocated for a musical focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion.
• Funding for Moroccan Pottery Classes - $2 million was spent on pottery classes in Morocco.
• Sesame Street Show in Iraq - $20 million was used to promote a local version of Sesame Street.
• Fashion Week for Ukrainians in Paris - Funding was provided for Ukrainians to attend Paris Fashion Week.
• Electric Vehicles for Vietnam - $2.5 million was allocated for electric vehicles in Vietnam, part of a green energy initiative.
• Funding to Print Personalized Contraceptives - Money was spent on printing personalized contraceptives in developing countries.
• Unfinished Power Plant in Afghanistan - $335 million was spent on a diesel-fueled power plant that was never operational because locals couldn't afford diesel.
• Unsafe Dam Construction - $300-500 million was spent on a dam in Afghanistan deemed too unsafe to use.
• Non-existent Healthcare Facilities - Millions were spent on healthcare facilities that were reported not to exist.
• Cancelled Projects with Retained Payments - $70 million in contractor fees for projects cancelled before starting, where contractors kept the money.
• Police Training Facility in Afghanistan - $500k was spent on a police training facility that disintegrated in the rain due to poor construction materials (sand).
• Unsafe Cargo Planes - Nearly $500 million was paid for 22 cargo planes that were unsafe to fly and later sold for scrap at a fraction of the cost.
• Incomplete Road in Afghanistan - $249 million was spent on a road that was never completed.
• Gaza Pier - $300 million was used to build a pier attached to Gaza, which was destroyed by waves, with an additional $200 million spent to dismantle it.
• Funding to EcoHealth Alliance - Millions were given to EcoHealth Alliance, involved in research at the Wuhan lab, which stirred controversy.

I'm sure there are some holes to be poked in some of those, but it shows the trend. Taxpayer funded political activism at best, or flat out money laundering schemes at worst. And that's just one agency, and only a couple of weeks. Next he's talking about looking into politicians who make $280K per year that are accumulating 30M Net Worths (The Pelosi effect lol) - or the 150 year old people receiving their social security cheques. HOW is this a bad thing, other than "we don't like the guy doing the looking??"

As two white males, I'm sure we're the best people to speak on this.

DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER??? (OK just being a dick here... moving on.)

However, one fun thought experiment: Two identical candidates, one straight white male, one a POC / person of a visible minority of your choice. Some might say that it's a coin flip then, but the fact is the latter candidate has statistcally overcome more challenges, faced more bigotry and other hurdles, so is actually probably a better candidate.

This is literally a fantasy though. We're not talking about situations where "two exactly equal candidates are up for the job" - we're talking about injecting racial / gender bias into policy. As in, reducing the pool in the early stages based on race / gender. I get it, they are trying to solve for the struggles you mention... but no one is qualified to do that, let alone measure those struggles. No one is willing to admit they are making things worse either - because the intentions were good and that's all that matters. The law of unintended consequences hits this shit hard on so many levels here. People who earned their positions get labelled a DEI hires. People who did not earn their positions get thrown into positions where they aren't qualified. We ramp up division. We dedicate resources on whole departments created to keep track of all this shit instead of being productive. And in the end.. what did we fix... really just the optics of "look how many x race we have". I'm sorry, but you're flat out wrong here.

(re Death penalty) Pretty sure this is said in jest, but I really hope so. It doesn't work, and the only justification is if you want revenge, not justice.

Nope. Not familiar with that thread you mentioned, or at least can't remember it... but to make it clear, I'm even OK with you calling it revenge and would be fine with a John Wick style implementation. There are certain crimes there is no coming back from. Not sorry.

edit - almost forgot about this one:

Also, not sure if I'm detecting a vibe of climate change denial?

Let's say Climate Change is real for sake of discussion. The lefts approaches to solving it are so fucked up that just going ahead and destroying the planet would be a reasonable alternative. Luckily, most of the "science" is on the same level of "settled" as Covid was, and we're probably fine.