So . . . you wanty an unlimited time frame for your hypothesis (that all scientists tend toward atheism as a result of their involvement in scientific inquiry)? Now who is taking a lot on "faith"?
Further, as it is HIS hypothesis, should not the burden be on HIM to prove it? Otherwise he is just making a claim with no facts to back it up, right?
So..
What you're saying is that I'm being silly waiting for something that someone wrote would happen, based on "faith" (your word). Before which you mentioned that in order for the statement to be true it would have to have an absence of evidence to the contrary (i.e. scientists with a theological belief), but since that is not the case it is more than a little silly to try and ignore said evidence.
Finally, you're saying that because of the immensely difficult, almost impossible task of fully satisfying someone that you have managed to prove a negative, the onus on the other guy should be to prove his statements factual.
I think we just answered the thread question. Thanks for the assist. Happy Birthday.
Mark cue the inevitable hypocritical dismissal of this well planned trap
just came across this article today and it reminded me of some crazy stories that i completely forgot about in the bible (it's been many years since i read it last). specifically to milo (who has clearly stated that the old testament is "stupid" and doesn't always make sense and that the new testament is where all the good stuff and "real important" stuff is) please feel free to explain these for the rest of us heathens.
#7 the demons fled the men and possessed the pigs. Better a herd of pigs die than two humans.
wait, this just made me think of something else. does this mean that you believe in the existence of demons and actual exorcisms? just kind of curious.
human life is too short ... how we lived without faith ... Think ... even doctors believe ... they are adamant that they do not know what happens to people after death .marks and Engels believed that communism will prevail throughout the world, but it did not happen ... the struggle between materialism and dualism will be eternal ...
wait, this just made me think of something else. does this mean that you believe in the existence of demons and actual exorcisms? just kind of curious.
IF one is to believe in "God", how can they not believe in a "Devil"? As for numbers 1 - 6, I'll get to them when I feel like it. It isn't like it's going to change anyone's opinion anyway. So, why bother?
As for the preamble about my comments viz the OT and the NT, all I have said is that, since the birth of Christ and his life here on Earth, and the NEW Testament that resulted from same, the OT is best understood through the lens provided by the NT. Much like follow on scientific discovery informs and updates our knowledge in a given field. Hell, there are some Evangelicals out there that completely ignore the OT.
There must be something that you believe in that you can not see? What would they be?
Prophet22
I do admit that there is a possibility of some sort of power or energy that we can't necessarily see or sense normally that could constitute a supernatural phenomenon. I'm not certain that it is a dead person's soul (a ghost) or some ever existing supernatural being (a demon) though.
I do admit that there is a possibility of some sort of power or energy that we can't necessarily see or sense normally that could constitute a supernatural phenomenon. I'm not certain that it is a dead person's soul (a ghost) or some ever existing supernatural being (a demon) though.
I am ok with the first part for sure. (I'll put it in bold). My next question to you would be this: Do you believe that ener could have a positive or negitive impact in our world today? No agenda here, straight forward question.
I am ok with the first part for sure. (I'll put it in bold). My next question to you would be this: Do you believe that ener could have a positive or negitive impact in our world today? No agenda here, straight forward question.
Prophet22
I guess it could influence positively or negatively depending on perception but I'd think energy itself has no agenda.
interesting article i came across today. i do kind of like the idea of religion as a necessary evolutionary step. i don't know if i agree, but it's an interesting argument to make.
it does make sense and it is very similar to an argument i made in this thread previously. however, i wonder how it relates to religion nowadays and the constant spreading of various religions. i mean, it makes sense for the origins of religion, but not much else.
it does make sense and it is very similar to an argument i made in this thread previously. however, i wonder how it relates to religion nowadays and the constant spreading of various religions. i mean, it makes sense for the origins of religion, but not much else.
How to respond to this? Mark believes this too. In general people make this claim when one doesn't agree with their opinion. However, I would agrue we know more today, then we have at anypoint in history.
How to respond to this? Mark believes this too. In general people make this claim when one doesn't agree with their opinion. However, I would agrue we know more today, then we have at anypoint in history.
Prophet22
I would agree with your last statement. Human knowledge has never been greater, but this fact does not preclude my statement.
The general population does not understand concepts like causality or inference, or know what a logical fallacy is.
Examining the current spread of religion today, I would start by asking what is meant by the word spread. Is there an implication that the number of devout individuals are increasing, or that the percentage of devout individuals with respect to population is increasing. Or both. Or neither, and it means something else.
A quick Internet search reveals that by 2050 the percentage of individuals that are atheist, agnostic, or religiously unaffiliated will drop globally from 16% (in 2010) to 13%. Seems like religion is spreading... but is it?
Or is it because the current birth rates for the Islamic population is currently around 3.1% and 2.7% for Christianity. Both of these numbers are above global rates, and way ahead of secular rates.
It seems to me that it all depends on how you define the word spread, and how hard you want to manipulate the data!
interesting article i came across today. i'm assuming the theists can easily dismiss it by saying "humans simply can't comprehend what heaven is." however, this is a pretty good breakdown on the problems of heaven.
interesting article i came across today. i'm assuming the theists can easily dismiss it by saying "humans simply can't comprehend what heaven is." however, this is a pretty good breakdown on the problems of heaven.
Actually don't need to start with that, lots of literature to comb through in order to come to the plausibility of heaven. (And no I am not talking about movies like "Heaven is for Real")
Proophet22
PS ready to play our match on Stars when you get things worked out.
Yup. Every theist knows that 1) it's the terrorists choosing evil over good and that's their bad choice and 2) it's all a test of our faith. Jeez you non believers.
I can't remember if it was brought up in this thread but what about the completely pointless suffering in the world (ex. a tree falling and pinning a deer who then it starves to death with no humans ever seeing it)? Why does God allow that to happen? If it was discussed I don't recall the theists' responses.
Probably safe to say this thread's question has been answered by recent events.
Mark
Making the case for atheism...can it be done? That was the question. I assume you think that God should have stopped it and because He didn't there must not be a God?
Yup. Every theist knows that 1) it's the terrorists choosing evil over good and that's their bad choice and 2) it's all a test of our faith. Jeez you non believers.
I can't remember if it was brought up in this thread but what about the completely pointless suffering in the world (ex. a tree falling and pinning a deer who then it starves to death with no humans ever seeing it)? Why does God allow that to happen? If it was discussed I don't recall the theists' responses.
Why don't you quote Sam Harris here and say they didn't have a choice?
Evil and suffering are difficult topics but in a sin infested world and our fallen state of being, do you really think you can come up with an explaination to satistfy anyone, let alone the atheist?
The atheist should have no problem with what is going on in the world today. The true believer believes it is only going to get worst! The signs are there like never before as man continues to rebel against God.
Making the case for atheism...can it be done? That was the question. I assume you think that God should have stopped it and because He didn't there must not be a God?
Comments
So..
What you're saying is that I'm being silly waiting for something that someone wrote would happen, based on "faith" (your word). Before which you mentioned that in order for the statement to be true it would have to have an absence of evidence to the contrary (i.e. scientists with a theological belief), but since that is not the case it is more than a little silly to try and ignore said evidence.
Finally, you're saying that because of the immensely difficult, almost impossible task of fully satisfying someone that you have managed to prove a negative, the onus on the other guy should be to prove his statements factual.
I think we just answered the thread question. Thanks for the assist. Happy Birthday.
Mark
cue the inevitable hypocritical dismissal of this well planned trap
7 Moments in the Bible When Jesus Acted Very Un-Jesus-Like
my favorite is definitely #4 although the unnecessary slaughtering of thousands of pigs is a close second.
fair enough. you missed some of the others though
wait, this just made me think of something else. does this mean that you believe in the existence of demons and actual exorcisms? just kind of curious.
You mean you don’t ???
As for the preamble about my comments viz the OT and the NT, all I have said is that, since the birth of Christ and his life here on Earth, and the NEW Testament that resulted from same, the OT is best understood through the lens provided by the NT. Much like follow on scientific discovery informs and updates our knowledge in a given field. Hell, there are some Evangelicals out there that completely ignore the OT.
I'd love to see one.
Which? Demon? Exorcism?
There must be something that you believe in that you can not see? What would they be?
Prophet22
Both.
I do admit that there is a possibility of some sort of power or energy that we can't necessarily see or sense normally that could constitute a supernatural phenomenon. I'm not certain that it is a dead person's soul (a ghost) or some ever existing supernatural being (a demon) though.
I am ok with the first part for sure. (I'll put it in bold). My next question to you would be this: Do you believe that ener could have a positive or negitive impact in our world today? No agenda here, straight forward question.
Prophet22
I guess it could influence positively or negatively depending on perception but I'd think energy itself has no agenda.
The Origins of Religion: How Supernatural Beliefs Evolved
it does make sense and it is very similar to an argument i made in this thread previously. however, i wonder how it relates to religion nowadays and the constant spreading of various religions. i mean, it makes sense for the origins of religion, but not much else.
How to respond to this? Mark believes this too. In general people make this claim when one doesn't agree with their opinion. However, I would agrue we know more today, then we have at anypoint in history.
Prophet22
The general population does not understand concepts like causality or inference, or know what a logical fallacy is.
Examining the current spread of religion today, I would start by asking what is meant by the word spread. Is there an implication that the number of devout individuals are increasing, or that the percentage of devout individuals with respect to population is increasing. Or both. Or neither, and it means something else.
A quick Internet search reveals that by 2050 the percentage of individuals that are atheist, agnostic, or religiously unaffiliated will drop globally from 16% (in 2010) to 13%. Seems like religion is spreading... but is it?
Or is it because the current birth rates for the Islamic population is currently around 3.1% and 2.7% for Christianity. Both of these numbers are above global rates, and way ahead of secular rates.
It seems to me that it all depends on how you define the word spread, and how hard you want to manipulate the data!
But I stand by my original statement!
Problems With Heaven
Actually don't need to start with that, lots of literature to comb through in order to come to the plausibility of heaven. (And no I am not talking about movies like "Heaven is for Real")
Proophet22
PS ready to play our match on Stars when you get things worked out.
Mark
I can't remember if it was brought up in this thread but what about the completely pointless suffering in the world (ex. a tree falling and pinning a deer who then it starves to death with no humans ever seeing it)? Why does God allow that to happen? If it was discussed I don't recall the theists' responses.
Making the case for atheism...can it be done? That was the question. I assume you think that God should have stopped it and because He didn't there must not be a God?
Why don't you quote Sam Harris here and say they didn't have a choice?
Evil and suffering are difficult topics but in a sin infested world and our fallen state of being, do you really think you can come up with an explaination to satistfy anyone, let alone the atheist?
The atheist should have no problem with what is going on in the world today. The true believer believes it is only going to get worst! The signs are there like never before as man continues to rebel against God.
Prophet22
You would not be correct.
Mark