LOL, you know Kristy, it's an amazing thing the mind.. Those KK's always look so great. Even though at times I can be pretty well the tightest player around, rarely does someone fold to my AA raises. You are certainly not the first nor the last. I think it's that our mind tells us that maybe this time he's making a move, taking advantage of his tight image.... I guess I'll keep pushing with them until someone decides to finally believe me.... hehe, hopefully never. Small consolation, I wouldn't have folded either if our hands had been the other way around...
Sucks that your rockets didn't hold up at FV tho... Doesn't seem fair.
I don't mind limping here sometimes. If there is a raise behind, well you know what to do but even if there isn't, you are going to have 5 players act ahead of you on the flop so with some skill you should be able to get away from trouble. In other words, if you can't lay down AA, stop reading now. As well, you need opponents who are capable of going all-in with top pair or a nut flush draw.
It's funny how some players seem to think it's a right to win chips with AA. But think about it a bit more. AA will usually by the river will still be just a pair of aces. This is why it is really good heads up all-in and not so good in a multiway pot seeing a flop.
You're thinking wait a second, you just advocated limping with AA? Yes, I did, but don't discount the possibility of a raise behind. It is not a zero chance. Okay, so here we are in a 7 way limped pot with AA. Now what?
Well step one is the texture of the flop. If there is no straight or flush possible, then you are beaten by a set or two pair. Against a set, you are in trouble. You can overtake two pairs some of the time. However, it is much more likely you are against a draw or top pair. However, his draw may not be as good as he thinks. A guy with Axs or KJs on a low board with two flush cards may think he has 9 outs to the flush and 3 to 6 outs for the overcards. Against this guy, you are 65% (he has only 9 outs) so that's a good candidate to go all-in with.
If you don't like the action on the flop or the flop cards, throw away your AA. You cost yourself 30 chips. I know a lot of you will think you are "wasting" good cards by doing this. But for those of you with PokerTracker, check you hand histories and see which hands have made the most money for you. Also, review your AA hands and see the ones that doubled you up, made you a little, lost you a little, and the ones that screwed you. I'm willing to bet the ones that "lost you a little" will be very rare unless you are the type who can lay down AA.
As a final note, lots of poker advice gets intertwined between limit and NL holdem. I feel playing big hands is one of them. In limit, you can't bet players off of draws in multiway pots so raising and reraising big pairs is critical. However in NL, you can bet all your chips at any time so you can bet people off draws. It's important to remember this.
So, you think you will get any of the limpers out for 90? Me, I don't.
3-4BB is the standard raise; why don't you get off your high horse already. Personally, I would like to know what makes you such a voice of authority on this game? Blondefish, I respect, because he has actually accomplished something with his poker career, but I don't recall you winning any big tournament, etc. Not sure what cheap thrill you get by insulting other forum members being this almight voice of poker knowledge/experience? If you don't like my comments, so be it. If you don't have anything of value to add, save your breath.
3-4BB is the standard raise; why don't you get off your high horse already. Personally, I would like to know what makes you such a voice of authority on this game? Blondefish, I respect, because he has actually accomplished something with his poker career, but I don't recall you winning any big tournament, etc. Not sure what cheap thrill you get by insulting other forum members being this almight voice of poker knowledge/experience? If you don't like my comments, so be it. If you don't have anything of value to add, save your breath.
Yeahhhhh. 3-4 bb is the standard raise when you are opening the pot. You obviously have no clue as to what you are talking about. I assume that most of your posts are trolls because they are so inane, but I guess you've corrected me on that one. I'm mostly a cash-game player and I have no need to post my monthly wins/losses on here. I don't have a "poker career", I have a career and I play poker part-time for fun and some profit. On the basis of your responses I know you don't have the former, and the latter would be highly questionable given that you likely have great difficulty getting around during the day without bumping-into sharp objects. Please, please, please just try and think one time before you start another idiotic thread or make ridiculous responses.
Oh, and despite our differences, I sincerely hope that the surgery went well without any complications. I heard that not only the ESC key, but also the "page up" and "insert" keys were deep inside your abdomen. For the love of God, don't forget to take your antibiotics and rest for the next week to ensure a complete recovery.
Yeahhhhh. 3-4 bb is the standard raise when you are opening the pot. You obviously have no clue as to what you are talking about.
Well, I belong to this forum to try and improve my game, which I think it has. If you get your rocks off by insulting other people, power to you. Maybe from now on, whenever I post on this site, I will PM you the link, to save you the effort of tracking down my posts so you can tell me how terrible my play is. At least I try to make a contribution to this site by actually starting the odd thread. I think this adds more value to the site than the odd lame response or insult.
Thanks for clarifying your poker background. It puts a lot of things in perspective.
3-4BB is the standard raise; why don't you get off your high horse already. Personally, I would like to know what makes you such a voice of authority on this game? Blondefish, I respect, because he has actually accomplished something with his poker career, but I don't recall you winning any big tournament, etc. Not sure what cheap thrill you get by insulting other forum members being this almight voice of poker knowledge/experience? If you don't like my comments, so be it. If you don't have anything of value to add, save your breath.
On to the original point that caused you so much insult:
I have to assume that you're saying that with more than one limper in front of you, with players yet to act behind you, with the blinds yet to act, that a 3xbb raise will get people out?
Yeahhhhh, I see where my saying that it won't was insulting. Man, what a slam against you by me. I'm so sorry that in saying that your "standard raise" won't get anyone out has impeded your improvement as a poker player. My apologies to your bankroll.
Why so many posts in here about playing fancy, trying to fool your oponents, super post flop playing abilities, etc..
Its a $7 sng, level 1.
Just raise it up, not a dinky raise either. FWIW a shove isn't even too bad here, but i'd prob go with a 3x +1.
Be a bot!
I agree with most of this except the shove part.
Making a shitty little raise is stupid because people will call the the raise and either hit the flop and stack you or miss and fold. This allows you to win the min and lose the max.
Raise it up and charge them admission pre-flop when they are good and loose. You don't need to be tricky here just play fundamental poker.
Shoving is just silly because it will work like never. This is an easy spot for you to add 20 -30% to your stack and that is what we are looking to do at this point in the tourney. Accumulate some chips.
This is how you win these:
1. Build a stack early and when it turns into a push fest about 30 minutes in
2. pick on the medium stacks.
3. profit
On to the original point that caused you so much insult:
I have to assume that you're saying that with more than one limper in front of you, with players yet to act behind you, with the blinds yet to act, that a 3xbb raise will get people out?
Yeahhhhh, I see where my saying that it won't was insulting. Man, what a slam against you by me. I'm so sorry that in saying that your "standard raise" won't get anyone out has impeded your improvement as a poker player. My apologies to your bankroll.
Don't forget your meds.
My comment was 3-4x BB. In the context of a $7 sng, you may be right. In higher level SNGs or tournaments for that matter, I don't think you need to go much higher that 4x the bb to isolate. Especially early in an SNG when players are still feeling out each other. No right or wrong answer, really player dependant.
My comment was 3-4x BB. In the context of a $7 sng, you may be right. In higher level SNGs or tournaments for that matter, I don't think you need to go much higher that 4x the bb to isolate. Especially early in an SNG when players are still feeling out each other. No right or wrong answer, really player dependant.
When there are already a couple of limpers and a whole table to act, you need to go higher. Otherwise you could still very well end up playing a multi-way pot
My comment was 3-4x BB. In the context of a $7 sng, you may be right. In higher level SNGs or tournaments for that matter, I don't think you need to go much higher that 4x the bb to isolate. Especially early in an SNG when players are still feeling out each other. No right or wrong answer, really player dependant.
Nope, you're wrong. In fact, your wrongness amplifies as you increase the buy-in. No one is going to limp for 1bb and fold for 4bb with almost certain multi-way action in the first round of a sng unless they are clueless -- and you are more likely to find a greater %age of competent players at a $100-$200 table than you are at a $7 table.
Nope, you're wrong. In fact, your wrongness amplifies as you increase the buy-in. No one is going to limp for 1bb and fold for 4bb with almost certain multi-way action in the first round of a sng unless they are clueless -- and you are more likely to find a greater %age of competent players at a $100-$200 table than you are at a $7 table.
Next.
now wasn't that easy without all the additional commentary.
I will make a note of this for future reference. Next time I get AA in middle position in a SNG with a couple of limpers, must raise to more than 4x BB. This should do wonders for my ROI.
btw, as an experienced cash game player, what would you recommend in a $1/$2 cash game in the same situation?
When there are already a couple of limpers and a whole table to act, you need to go higher. Otherwise you could still very well end up playing a multi-way pot
you have the best starting hand in poker, and you are worried about a multi-way pot. God forbid I see a flop with AA and two other players. I might actually have to start playing poker.
Is it really necessary to raise enough to isolate to one other player? I know this is what the books tell us, but is this what poker has become?? A game of predictable moves.
Nope, you're wrong. In fact, your wrongness amplifies as you increase the buy-in. No one is going to limp for 1bb and fold for 4bb with almost certain multi-way action in the first round of a sng unless they are clueless -- and you are more likely to find a greater %age of competent players at a $100-$200 table than you are at a $7 table.
+1....Made famous by BigChrisEl, this is the overcall.
I think it's important not to compare live to online here. You are not comparing Apples to Apples.
So message to the OP. To me you made the correct play. Irregularity that you didnt get action here
now wasn't that easy without all the additional commentary.
I will make a note of this for future reference. Next time I get AA in middle position in a SNG with a couple of limpers, must raise to more than 4x BB. This should do wonders for my ROI.
btw, as an experienced cash game player, what would you recommend in a $1/$2 cash game in the same situation?
It completely depends on the table and what the standard raises have been and how many callers each raise has been getting. Is there a specific player that you are targetting, etc. There is much more variation in this live than online. I'm not sure if you're referring to a live or online 1/2 game?
Is it really necessary to raise enough to isolate to one other player? I know this is what the books tell us, but is this what poker has become?? A game of predictable moves.
Go ahead and raise to 90 and play this hand against 6 players..and you are playing a $7.50 buy in SnG. ABC Poker goes a long way
It completely depends on the table and what the standard raises have been and how many callers each raise has been getting. Is there a specific player that you are targetting, etc. There is much more variation in this live than online. I'm not sure if you're referring to a live or online 1/2 game?
Exactly, so if the table will fold to a 4xbb raise, 120 raise is the bomb. I only play live these days, so 1/2 live.
Go ahead and raise to 90 and play this hand against 6 players..and you are playing a $7.50 buy in SnG. ABC Poker goes a long way
I think this guy wants sound advice based on the situation. If we are giving buy-in specific advice, then why not push with any ace and move on the next SNG? Apparently there is the right way and the 'jah' way on this site. No other forum members see nothing wrong with raising 4x the bb, irrespective of the buy-in? Too many sheep in the herd I guess.
I think this guy wants sound advice based on the situation. If we are giving buy-in specific advice, then why not push with any ace and move on the next SNG? Apparently there is the right way and the 'jah' way on this site. No other forum members see nothing wrong with raising 4x the bb, irrespective of the buy-in? Too many sheep in the herd I guess.
As the OP in this thread, I can say that I have a huge problem with a 4x BB raise, as I think it accomplishes nothing but creating a huge pot for me to battle against 5 other hands with.
As GTA said, if I am opening the pot 3 to 4x is standard. With three people limped already plus the big blind, raising 4 times the blind is silly(he may have actually said stupid, I don't recall).
Exactly, so if the table will fold to a 4xbb raise, 120 raise is the bomb. I only play live these days, so 1/2 live.
I give up, you can't even keep track of which examples you are using for which games and you contradict yourself in 80% of your posts. GL with your game.
I give up, you can't even keep track of which examples you are using for which games and you contradict yourself in 80% of your posts. GL with your game.
I was referring to your previous post that noted you only played live cash games. So I thought you would comment on this example in a cash game situation. Seems fair to me.
I was referring to your previous post that noted you only played live cash games. So I thought you would comment on this example in a cash game situation. Seems fair to me.
Imagine, Kristy thought there would be very little to discuss in this thread.
Can I, as this threads creator, recommend that it be either stickied so we can all LOL at it for months to come.
OR
Order it cast into oblivion.
My question was simply regarding the optimal strategy for playing in this situation. I think a few folks addressed this, and between that and my own thoughts, I feel satisfied that I have learned something here.
I have to say, I did give some thought to limping, and here's why. If you'll notice on the hand history there was a player with about 700 chips left who had just lost a huge pot about two hands earlier(the hand history will not tell you that part). I considered that he might move in an attempt to pick up all that loose money allowing me to crush him. So I do see the value in that play from time to time, however I don't think it was the optimal play here by any means.
Comments
Sucks that your rockets didn't hold up at FV tho... Doesn't seem fair.
P.S. You don't suck...
It's funny how some players seem to think it's a right to win chips with AA. But think about it a bit more. AA will usually by the river will still be just a pair of aces. This is why it is really good heads up all-in and not so good in a multiway pot seeing a flop.
You're thinking wait a second, you just advocated limping with AA? Yes, I did, but don't discount the possibility of a raise behind. It is not a zero chance. Okay, so here we are in a 7 way limped pot with AA. Now what?
Well step one is the texture of the flop. If there is no straight or flush possible, then you are beaten by a set or two pair. Against a set, you are in trouble. You can overtake two pairs some of the time. However, it is much more likely you are against a draw or top pair. However, his draw may not be as good as he thinks. A guy with Axs or KJs on a low board with two flush cards may think he has 9 outs to the flush and 3 to 6 outs for the overcards. Against this guy, you are 65% (he has only 9 outs) so that's a good candidate to go all-in with.
If you don't like the action on the flop or the flop cards, throw away your AA. You cost yourself 30 chips. I know a lot of you will think you are "wasting" good cards by doing this. But for those of you with PokerTracker, check you hand histories and see which hands have made the most money for you. Also, review your AA hands and see the ones that doubled you up, made you a little, lost you a little, and the ones that screwed you. I'm willing to bet the ones that "lost you a little" will be very rare unless you are the type who can lay down AA.
As a final note, lots of poker advice gets intertwined between limit and NL holdem. I feel playing big hands is one of them. In limit, you can't bet players off of draws in multiway pots so raising and reraising big pairs is critical. However in NL, you can bet all your chips at any time so you can bet people off draws. It's important to remember this.
3-4BB is the standard raise; why don't you get off your high horse already. Personally, I would like to know what makes you such a voice of authority on this game? Blondefish, I respect, because he has actually accomplished something with his poker career, but I don't recall you winning any big tournament, etc. Not sure what cheap thrill you get by insulting other forum members being this almight voice of poker knowledge/experience? If you don't like my comments, so be it. If you don't have anything of value to add, save your breath.
Yeahhhhh. 3-4 bb is the standard raise when you are opening the pot. You obviously have no clue as to what you are talking about. I assume that most of your posts are trolls because they are so inane, but I guess you've corrected me on that one. I'm mostly a cash-game player and I have no need to post my monthly wins/losses on here. I don't have a "poker career", I have a career and I play poker part-time for fun and some profit. On the basis of your responses I know you don't have the former, and the latter would be highly questionable given that you likely have great difficulty getting around during the day without bumping-into sharp objects. Please, please, please just try and think one time before you start another idiotic thread or make ridiculous responses.
Oh, and despite our differences, I sincerely hope that the surgery went well without any complications. I heard that not only the ESC key, but also the "page up" and "insert" keys were deep inside your abdomen. For the love of God, don't forget to take your antibiotics and rest for the next week to ensure a complete recovery.
Its a $7 sng, level 1.
Just raise it up, not a dinky raise either. FWIW a shove isn't even too bad here, but i'd prob go with a 3x +1.
Be a bot!
Well, I belong to this forum to try and improve my game, which I think it has. If you get your rocks off by insulting other people, power to you. Maybe from now on, whenever I post on this site, I will PM you the link, to save you the effort of tracking down my posts so you can tell me how terrible my play is. At least I try to make a contribution to this site by actually starting the odd thread. I think this adds more value to the site than the odd lame response or insult.
Thanks for clarifying your poker background. It puts a lot of things in perspective.
On to the original point that caused you so much insult:
I have to assume that you're saying that with more than one limper in front of you, with players yet to act behind you, with the blinds yet to act, that a 3xbb raise will get people out?
Yeahhhhh, I see where my saying that it won't was insulting. Man, what a slam against you by me. I'm so sorry that in saying that your "standard raise" won't get anyone out has impeded your improvement as a poker player. My apologies to your bankroll.
Don't forget your meds.
I agree with most of this except the shove part.
Making a shitty little raise is stupid because people will call the the raise and either hit the flop and stack you or miss and fold. This allows you to win the min and lose the max.
Raise it up and charge them admission pre-flop when they are good and loose. You don't need to be tricky here just play fundamental poker.
Shoving is just silly because it will work like never. This is an easy spot for you to add 20 -30% to your stack and that is what we are looking to do at this point in the tourney. Accumulate some chips.
This is how you win these:
1. Build a stack early and when it turns into a push fest about 30 minutes in
2. pick on the medium stacks.
3. profit
My comment was 3-4x BB. In the context of a $7 sng, you may be right. In higher level SNGs or tournaments for that matter, I don't think you need to go much higher that 4x the bb to isolate. Especially early in an SNG when players are still feeling out each other. No right or wrong answer, really player dependant.
When there are already a couple of limpers and a whole table to act, you need to go higher. Otherwise you could still very well end up playing a multi-way pot
Nope, you're wrong. In fact, your wrongness amplifies as you increase the buy-in. No one is going to limp for 1bb and fold for 4bb with almost certain multi-way action in the first round of a sng unless they are clueless -- and you are more likely to find a greater %age of competent players at a $100-$200 table than you are at a $7 table.
Next.
now wasn't that easy without all the additional commentary.
I will make a note of this for future reference. Next time I get AA in middle position in a SNG with a couple of limpers, must raise to more than 4x BB. This should do wonders for my ROI.
btw, as an experienced cash game player, what would you recommend in a $1/$2 cash game in the same situation?
you have the best starting hand in poker, and you are worried about a multi-way pot. God forbid I see a flop with AA and two other players. I might actually have to start playing poker.
Is it really necessary to raise enough to isolate to one other player? I know this is what the books tell us, but is this what poker has become?? A game of predictable moves.
+1....Made famous by BigChrisEl, this is the overcall.
I think it's important not to compare live to online here. You are not comparing Apples to Apples.
So message to the OP. To me you made the correct play. Irregularity that you didnt get action here
It completely depends on the table and what the standard raises have been and how many callers each raise has been getting. Is there a specific player that you are targetting, etc. There is much more variation in this live than online. I'm not sure if you're referring to a live or online 1/2 game?
To the people in this thread who have a brain. See you in another thread.
To the rest of you. Pleas get one.
To Pantsonfire. Your avatar makes me LOL
It keeps blood pressure low, reduces tilt and gets you kinky BDSM dates!
Go ahead and raise to 90 and play this hand against 6 players..and you are playing a $7.50 buy in SnG. ABC Poker goes a long way
Exactly, so if the table will fold to a 4xbb raise, 120 raise is the bomb. I only play live these days, so 1/2 live.
I think this guy wants sound advice based on the situation. If we are giving buy-in specific advice, then why not push with any ace and move on the next SNG? Apparently there is the right way and the 'jah' way on this site. No other forum members see nothing wrong with raising 4x the bb, irrespective of the buy-in? Too many sheep in the herd I guess.
As the OP in this thread, I can say that I have a huge problem with a 4x BB raise, as I think it accomplishes nothing but creating a huge pot for me to battle against 5 other hands with.
As GTA said, if I am opening the pot 3 to 4x is standard. With three people limped already plus the big blind, raising 4 times the blind is silly(he may have actually said stupid, I don't recall).
I give up, you can't even keep track of which examples you are using for which games and you contradict yourself in 80% of your posts. GL with your game.
/g2
I was referring to your previous post that noted you only played live cash games. So I thought you would comment on this example in a cash game situation. Seems fair to me.
Imagine, Kristy thought there would be very little to discuss in this thread.
Can I, as this threads creator, recommend that it be either stickied so we can all LOL at it for months to come.
OR
Order it cast into oblivion.
My question was simply regarding the optimal strategy for playing in this situation. I think a few folks addressed this, and between that and my own thoughts, I feel satisfied that I have learned something here.
I have to say, I did give some thought to limping, and here's why. If you'll notice on the hand history there was a player with about 700 chips left who had just lost a huge pot about two hands earlier(the hand history will not tell you that part). I considered that he might move in an attempt to pick up all that loose money allowing me to crush him. So I do see the value in that play from time to time, however I don't think it was the optimal play here by any means.
Thanks for the input.