playing AA after several limpers.
I've had this situation arise a few times and didn't remember seeing it discussed.
PokerStars Game #17166303685: Tournament #86997830, $7.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/05/03 - 05:16:58 (ET)
Table '86997830 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: DDTroll (1780 in chips)
Seat 2: PotofNutz (1535 in chips)
Seat 3: I_GUTSHOT_U (1595 in chips)
Seat 4: dinocourt (1415 in chips)
Seat 5: Karsten85 (1910 in chips)
Seat 6: pira1887 (1470 in chips)
Seat 7: nickellin (1405 in chips)
Seat 8: RealNikNak (1600 in chips)
Seat 9: NickDenmark (790 in chips)
RealNikNak: posts small blind 15
NickDenmark: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dinocourt [Ad Ah]
DDTroll: calls 30
PotofNutz: calls 30
I_GUTSHOT_U: calls 30
dinocourt: raises 270 to 300
Karsten85: folds
pira1887: folds
nickellin: folds
RealNikNak: folds
NickDenmark: folds
DDTroll: folds
PotofNutz: folds
I_GUTSHOT_U: folds
Uncalled bet (270) returned to dinocourt
dinocourt collected 165 from pot
dinocourt: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 165 | Rake 0
Seat 1: DDTroll folded before Flop
Seat 2: PotofNutz folded before Flop
Seat 3: I_GUTSHOT_U folded before Flop
Seat 4: dinocourt collected (165)
Seat 5: Karsten85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: pira1887 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: nickellin (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: RealNikNak (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: NickDenmark (big blind) folded before Flop
Obviously, I didn't want to discourage all the action. What's my ideal raise here, to encourage weaker hands to fold without killing the action entirely?(knowing that ideally I do want weaker hands to call, just not five of them)
I suppose I should have just folded.
Edit: Sub-question, why am I such a wimp when it comes to post flop play?
PokerStars Game #17166303685: Tournament #86997830, $7.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/05/03 - 05:16:58 (ET)
Table '86997830 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: DDTroll (1780 in chips)
Seat 2: PotofNutz (1535 in chips)
Seat 3: I_GUTSHOT_U (1595 in chips)
Seat 4: dinocourt (1415 in chips)
Seat 5: Karsten85 (1910 in chips)
Seat 6: pira1887 (1470 in chips)
Seat 7: nickellin (1405 in chips)
Seat 8: RealNikNak (1600 in chips)
Seat 9: NickDenmark (790 in chips)
RealNikNak: posts small blind 15
NickDenmark: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dinocourt [Ad Ah]
DDTroll: calls 30
PotofNutz: calls 30
I_GUTSHOT_U: calls 30
dinocourt: raises 270 to 300
Karsten85: folds
pira1887: folds
nickellin: folds
RealNikNak: folds
NickDenmark: folds
DDTroll: folds
PotofNutz: folds
I_GUTSHOT_U: folds
Uncalled bet (270) returned to dinocourt
dinocourt collected 165 from pot
dinocourt: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 165 | Rake 0
Seat 1: DDTroll folded before Flop
Seat 2: PotofNutz folded before Flop
Seat 3: I_GUTSHOT_U folded before Flop
Seat 4: dinocourt collected (165)
Seat 5: Karsten85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: pira1887 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: nickellin (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: RealNikNak (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: NickDenmark (big blind) folded before Flop
Obviously, I didn't want to discourage all the action. What's my ideal raise here, to encourage weaker hands to fold without killing the action entirely?(knowing that ideally I do want weaker hands to call, just not five of them)
I suppose I should have just folded.
Edit: Sub-question, why am I such a wimp when it comes to post flop play?
Comments
I guess I was just wondering if there was an optimal bet here. Whether it's 5 or 6 times the blinds like you suggest, or something different.
My raise to 300 put like 445 in the pot, and cost the limpers 270 to call. A raise to 120 would have put 265 in the pot and only 90 to call(2.5 to 1 and increasing if any other player calls)
I guess it's a pretty basic question, it's late and I can't sleep.
I'm interested to know how others with more experience judge these situations, do they raise less and confidently take more risks with their premium holding, or are they somewhere in between, and can you balance inviting some action without creating pot odds too juicy for an opponent to pass up.
This is important to me also as I rarely play no limit(which I know will only invite your scorn)
sick burn.
yes, yes it will.
that's bizzaro strategy...shouldn't you be better suited to handle post-flop play if you're a limit guy?
I know that this is std. and I've never played this tournament...but unless your table is completely donktastic 180 feels like too much.
This could be a style difference: but I'm raising a lot..making a jacks or better tailored bet like 3bb+1bb/limper seems card dependant and will not elicit anything but a set mining call and flop check/fold when missed...
Is it possible that you are looking at how you play your aces when you might be better evaluating how you play your game over all?
I feel like a different approach might yield chips from a middle pair, or some weird calls/shoves pre and post with hands like aqo, ajs when they hit top pair, these hands seem to fit at least the UTG limp-a-thon.
(this is, of course, dependant on having opponents who are not making massive mistakes...if they are POOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!)
God forbid you say something without putting someone down while doing it.
My point stands.
I think 150-180 is good -- if you go too small and the first limper calls everyone will likely come along -- not terrible, but not great; I would rather try and pick out the biggest idiot with a bigger raise and isolate him, hoping he hits his J with QJ and going for stacks vs his 5 outer. Players are horrible in the step 1s, so try and exploit it.
I don't think it was sarcasm, I think PokerJah hijacked his account.
I tried to leave an out for that with "if they are making massive mistakes.."
I like your point and am presuming competent play when I suggest the lower amount.
Stop making it so easy.
However, my actual play might be a little more off-the-wall. You're in early position after a bunch of limpers, with 6 players left to act behind you. Limp. Now you've given the opportunity for a hand like AQ or JJ to make a raise behind you, or an LP player to make a steal. One of the limpers may call the raise (or not), and then you make a big re-raise. If they call, you're in great shape with the best hand - pray you don't get outdrawn. If they fold, you've at least won the dead money plus the raise. And if it gets limped to the flop multi-way, 1 pair is easy to get away from.
While I prefer raising normally, a small raise invites action (probably multi-way) and you have to play out-of-position. A big raise kills the action and you make nothing. So the "weaker" play of going for the limp-raise, while telegraphing your hand, seems to be the most profitable and easiest to play.
Yes, that is possible, very possible, and I think I could expand the answers I have received here to include a number of hands.
Like I mentioned to you earlier, my play after the flop in no limit poker is what needs the most work.
Thanks for the answers guys.
So, you think you will get any of the limpers out for 90? Me, I don't.
Ahhhh, so YOU want multi-way action with AA then???
Makes sense to me.
Don't mind a limpraise there at all. I have see limp-raises with air so often now I don't really give it that much credit anymore.
Don't forget the blinds have to act too.
What are the 2 biggest leaks from low limit SNG players:
1. Pre-flop hand selection is too loose
2. They call too much. Way too much.
Soooooo..... what are our total options in the above hand?
1. Limp behind? I'm sure some of our local retards will chime in an discuss the merits of this. Please do so I can make fun of you.
2. Raise a realistic amount that will get a call from the loosey gooseys who will call with all pairs or AT or better.
3. Raise a small amount that gives UTG implied odds to call and then start a chain of callers behind him so we can play a big family pot with AA.
4. Raise a stupid amount or push all of our chips in the middle. For added effect we can type "I have AA," in the chat box.
Thats my ranking of options
That's all I was really asking.
What is not a stupid amount to raise in this situation given me desire to
1. Not kill my action entirely
2. Not play the hand against 5 or more players.
180 with a range of AJ+, 88+
You are happy to get calls with the top part of your range and happy to get folds with the bottom.
Et tu, Brute?
this is 7 dollar tourny
so....AA just push all-in
raise any small amount will very strong to the fish, but push allin some pigface with K7sooted will think "hey he is on a steal, my K is good, and it's sooted" so they'll call.
don't get too angry when they suxup.
but this is for FTP. i am not sure about stars.
Raising to blow everyone off the hand is fine if you think your opponents play much better than you do postflop...
But if you are a better at postflop play then you need to get some deepish stack postflop action going here so you can use your skills.
I'm getting the feeling that the OP thinks he is afraid of postflop play.
So he probably doesn't have too much postflop experience.
So the blow them off the hand bet keeps the OP out of trouble at the cost of some postflop ++EV
Chuckie's suggestion of all in is not a bad one.
this is exactly what i was thinking. i'd be raising no matter what, but i'd probably try to gear my raise towards my personal postflop play (as well as my table image). if i'm confident that i can outplay my opponents postflop i'll raise a little less, if not i'll raise a little more. however, you have to raise in this position imho.
I am still throwing up in my mouth when I think about this...fucking kings! I was so close to folding them, but I convinced myself that you might do it with qq+, aks, I suck!
The best part is that I went from that tournament to FV and lost a buy in with my aces ai/pf to kings.. I refer you to my earlier 'fucking kings'
relevant material:
1. The above negates compuease's point, I needed kings to lose there.
2. Not a huge fan of the limp idea, i think a decent raise is better because it re opens the action to the EP party. (cosign on the read dependant, I'm sure there's a case for it..but we're talking most of the time)
3. GTA coming back to the forum is probably the best thing to happen since xx_cindy_xx.