critique my hand thought process
very early in a $8K guaranteed micro. no reads on villain as he's been in for less than one orbit. in general, there are some loose passive players looking to see cheap flops.
PokerStars - $2+$0.20|15/30 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
BTN: 1,770.00
SB: 3,390.00
BB: 2,775.00
UTG: 4,032.00
UTG+1: 1,185.00
MP: 2,925.00
Hero (MP+1): 4,175.00
CO: 3,718.00
SB posts SB 15.00
BB posts BB 30.00
Pre Flop: (45.00)
Hero has Kd Jh
3 folds
Hero raises to 90.00
CO calls 90.00
1 fold
SB calls 75.00
BB calls 60.00
Flop: (360.00, 4 players) 6h Kh 3c
SB checks
BB bets 150.00
i'm assuming AK and KK would have reraised preflop instead of calling to see a 4 way flop. KQ is possible and one hand that beats me. a worse K, worse pair or flush draw are also possible as well as 66 or 33 sets. maybe 54s. he is showing a lot of aggression and i'm worried about the other players still in the hand, but i don't think folding is an option yet. Call or raise?
Hero calls 150.00
2 folds
Turn: (660.00, 2 players) 2s
BB checks
luckily the other two fold. i probably would have to fold to a raise. turn is pretty much a blank and changes nothing. BB slows down. i'm still ahead of his range and i don't want to give him a free card. although checking behind to keep the pot small with a medium strength hand can be argued.
Hero bets 420.00
BB calls 420.00
River: (1500.00, 2 players) 8d
BB checks
should i be value betting here? he could be check/calling with a set, but there is a flush draw out still. maybe hoping his weak K holds. i felt that i'm only getting called by hands that would beat me. maybe KJ.
Hero checks
BB shows ?
PokerStars - $2+$0.20|15/30 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
BTN: 1,770.00
SB: 3,390.00
BB: 2,775.00
UTG: 4,032.00
UTG+1: 1,185.00
MP: 2,925.00
Hero (MP+1): 4,175.00
CO: 3,718.00
SB posts SB 15.00
BB posts BB 30.00
Pre Flop: (45.00)
Hero has Kd Jh
3 folds
Hero raises to 90.00
CO calls 90.00
1 fold
SB calls 75.00
BB calls 60.00
Flop: (360.00, 4 players) 6h Kh 3c
SB checks
BB bets 150.00
i'm assuming AK and KK would have reraised preflop instead of calling to see a 4 way flop. KQ is possible and one hand that beats me. a worse K, worse pair or flush draw are also possible as well as 66 or 33 sets. maybe 54s. he is showing a lot of aggression and i'm worried about the other players still in the hand, but i don't think folding is an option yet. Call or raise?
Hero calls 150.00
2 folds
Turn: (660.00, 2 players) 2s
BB checks
luckily the other two fold. i probably would have to fold to a raise. turn is pretty much a blank and changes nothing. BB slows down. i'm still ahead of his range and i don't want to give him a free card. although checking behind to keep the pot small with a medium strength hand can be argued.
Hero bets 420.00
BB calls 420.00
River: (1500.00, 2 players) 8d
BB checks
should i be value betting here? he could be check/calling with a set, but there is a flush draw out still. maybe hoping his weak K holds. i felt that i'm only getting called by hands that would beat me. maybe KJ.
Hero checks
BB shows ?
Comments
How is the turn a blank? Personally, I check behind on the turn to under-rep and for pot control and call or valuebet river...I don't think you get 3 streets of value vs any hand other than (maybe) KT and I think that your line is more exploitable.
yeah, i was really iffy about the turn bet. i completely understand checking there.
i was wanting to value bet the river. i just couldn't convince myself to do it.
thanks for the post btp.
just curious if after checking the flop, are you guys still calling a reasonable river bet even if a heart hits instead?
You guys are nits, I go for turn and river all day here in a $2 game. I probably go for turn and riv in a $100 game as well. He's in the BB and overcalled a raise/call, his range is really wide here and he's never folding a king and maybe not a 6. Most weak players are leading turn and/or riv if they have us beat.
And yes flop is definitely a flat. Don't raise because other people are left to act and your hand isn't the nuts by any means. I think we're ahead most of the time but we don't want to raise and fold out worse hands with few outs, and anything with significant outs isn't folding regardless.
I don't play mtts but in cash you are never getting 3 streets of value from the hands you mentioned...so checking the turn allows him to bluff the river or call a bet by underrepping the hand. I think getting value on riv vs a worse hand is more realistic than trying to get 3 streets vs what I perceive as a small range for value. IMO betting turn exposes us to hands that have us crushed.
Also, did they eliminate straights in mtts when full tilt went belly-up?
Typing on iPads sucks.
thanks for the comments vekked.
i do tend to fall on the tighter side, so maybe i should be thinking about getting more value in situations like this.
BB shows Kc8s (Two Pair, Kings and Eights) (Preflop 27%, Flop 14%, Turn 7%)
BB wins 1500.00
Hero mucks KdJh (One Pair, Kings) (Preflop 73%, Flop 86%, Turn 93%)
I'd be going for 3-streets vs. a fish here in cash as well, there's just so much value on the turn that we're missing out on with a FD out there and only a very tiny amount of hands that beat us, especially when he's the 3rd flatter. I'd be less likely to go for 3 streets vs. the 1st flatter. I don't know what "exposes us to hands that have us crushed" means really? If he has us crushed on this board we're probably drawing dead and going to lose a bet somewhere regardless. This isn't a board we need to pot control on.
I'm never getting 3 streets of value in a live cash game in this spot vs this hand unless the villian is in the bottom 10% of players and inebriated. I realize that this is a $2 MTT so we likely have different frames of reference.
What do you do if he bets the river after you bet flop and turn?
Usually call unless the flush got there.
I don't know what stakes you play in live cash but there's a good chance that 95% of the players in a $2 MTT are in the bottom 10% of players in your games.
What I mean by this line being exploitable is that a half decent villain's range includes sets and straights so calling a large bet on any non-flush river in a bloated pot with 1 pair isn't great. Can't a decent villain take the above line and overbet/shove the river when the flush misses with a set or straight? I shove K8 here all day on the river. You are playing 120+bb effective with TP average kicker...is this a great play vs a random villain? Is your line skewed heavily by the BI?
Ok, but I think you said you take the same line in $100 bi mtts...certainly those players are better?
With the FD out there most villains c/r sets before the river, I rarely expect them to slowplay with the board getting pretty coordinated. Also they probably have <1 combo of 54 by the turn on average and if they have more then their overall range will be wide enough that we can easily bet for value vs. their pairs/draws.
If you shove K8 here on the river that's fine but it doesn't make betting bad at all. If you have K8 you have at least K9 and KT as well, and most of the time you're going to be losing money to KJ and not be making it back when you hit your 8 and shove the river. Our kicker isn't very average when we think the only better kicker out there is KQ since AK usually 3-bets.
Yes my line is obv skewed heavily by the BI in the sense that I'd take this line almost always at this level but I'd still do it vs. 80% of players in $100 MTTs. Maybe in 1k's online it'd be more like 20% of players or something. Obviously have to make assumptions about the avg villain depending on the stakes especially online.