Do I have to go broke here?

UnknownUnknown
in General Poker Chat
From my Brantford 2K event trip report... my bustout hand. Any comments appreciated.

My bustout hand from the 2K event in Brantford:

100/200 a25

I picked up TT in the BB after my stack had dwindled down to about 5500 or so.

MP (shortstacked at around 2.5K or so) open-raised to 500.
SB (BIG stack) hummed and hawed, and eventually called.
I called.

Flop: 9 7 3 with two diamonds. SB fired 1000 into the pot. DECISION TIME. Here's what I thought about:

It would be tough for my opponent (I wasn't too worried about MP) to put me on an overpair to the board.
He had been quite active... he could easily have any of the following: A9, K9s, 9Ts, any two diamonds, 68s, T8s, JJ, 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, 33, 22.
I decided that there were too many hands I was ahead of in this spot, so I made it 2500. MP folded, and SB said "I think this is it man", and then moved in.
I called, and he showed me pocket jacks. I didn't improve, and that was that.

Comments

  • SirWattsSirWatts
    I'd reraise preflop so unless he made the big lay down I'd definitely get broke here. As played here I'd just call the flop and see what happens from there. If he fires a big bet on the turn maybe I'd find a fold if he's a really conservative player.
  • ElElliottElElliott
    Post flop, I don't think you could really get away, since that's exactly the type of flop you're looking for. I do kind of question your pre-flop call....with the MP player so short-stacked, (leaving himself only 2k back) I would have put him on big cards. If the flop comes with any over cards to your pair, you likely have to fold, and you've thrown away 10% of your stack calling pre-flop.

    With 2 other players, one of which is a short-stack and looking to double-up, the other a big stack who can oust me from the toruney....I don't want to see a flop with pocket 10s. I either push or fold in this situation. In this situation, if you pushed, you likely would have gone broke anyway...but depending on your table image and how BIG of a big stack he way, you may have gotten the SB to fold.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Didn't the preflop actions of the SB signal a decent hand here? Obviously I didn't witness it, but just by your play by play of his preflop acting, might have triggered you that he had pockets or at least overs to call with. Kinda surprised he didn't raise, so maybe you thought you would see a cheap flop.

    Either way, it was a go broke hand if you decided to play it preflop. Once in the hand, and with that flop, you were pretty much going broke with it.
  • LuckyPaulLuckyPaul
    I would have went broke here too, pre flop or on the flop.
  • hockrefhockref
    I don't see how you can put him on an overpair based on the preflop bet. I think anyone playing to win goes broke on this hand.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Thanks for the replies everyone... I feel a little better.  Not much, but a little.  It was a tough spot.

    I talked to Lou about it for a while today and he thought that I might have actually been able to fold to his all-in re-raise on the flop.  Sure, I wouldn't have a whole lot of my stack left, but I would have still been alive.  After I raise that much of my stack, the important thing to note here is that ***he expects to be called***.  He'd have to like his hand a whole lot more than a guy with A9 would if he's that quick to get his chips in, knowing he will very likely be called.
    ElElliott wrote:
    Post flop, I don't think you could really get away, since that's exactly the type of flop you're looking for. I do kind of question your pre-flop call....with the MP player so short-stacked, (leaving himself only 2k back) I would have put him on big cards. If the flop comes with any over cards to your pair, you likely have to fold, and you've thrown away 10% of your stack calling pre-flop.

    With 2 other players, one of which is a short-stack and looking to double-up, the other a big stack who can oust me from the toruney....I don't want to see a flop with pocket 10s. I either push or fold in this situation. In this situation, if you pushed, you likely would have gone broke anyway...but depending on your table image and how BIG of a big stack he way, you may have gotten the SB to fold.

    Hmmm... I think that pushing 5500 into a pot of 1000 might be a bit of an overbet pre-flop.  I agree that re-raising preflop is generally preferable, but my stack was kind of awkward.  Pushing seemed excessive.  Re-raising anything less that would still be substantial would probably commit me.  So I figured that, with my particular stack size, just calling and looking for a good flop was the best course of action.
  • esoolesool
    I lose all my money here too but but this should not comfort you as I know very little these days.
  • JimmyHoJimmyHo
    SB's call of the initial raise makes sense as there is only one other player at this point and he does not know whether you will call or not. A re-raise before the flop by the SB would likely make sense, but it would more than likely scare you away and potentially the MP. I actually like the $1,000 bet by the SB on the flop. Most players try to get fancy at this point with an over pair to the board and check waiting for a bet so they can come back with a re-raise. By making the $1,000 bet you don't know if he is representing a fictional hand or maybe has a small piece of the flop. After your re-raise, his all-in likely would indicate a very strong hand but at this point you have the majority of your chips in the pot so it is tough to fold. I think you made the right decision at this point. btw, after his initial raise, did you not go all-in because you were scared he would just fold? For me, if I started the hand with 5,500 in chips and now I can get back up to 8,000 with an all-in call, I'm happy with this increase to my stack and I take the pot and move on to the next hand. Once you bet the 2,500, you probably were thinking you were pot committed at this point anyways.

    PokerJAH
  • CrazyJoe113CrazyJoe113
    after your raise you still have 2500 left right, i definitely see where Lou is coming from, I can't see anything you are beating pushing in here that quick and anything beating you has you in deep trouble. Saving almost half your stack is probably one of the best case scenarios when it's overpair vs. overpair. Obviously not an easy laydown by any means, as he could have 2 high diamonds but I would be more likely to think he flopped a set that having a higher overpair, I would be thinking set or big flush draw. Big trouble vs. set, not great shape vs. 2 overcard flush draw, getting good price, it's a tough decision, but I agree you can fold to save a stack with an M of what? around 5 or so? that's a crappy spot to be in, great bet by SB
  • The LionThe Lion
    To be honest, I will go broke in that situation.  Its too hard to lay down an over pair with that flop.  Sometime its just bad timing for those cards.  Most of the time you would have dominated him, but this time you just ran into a brick wall.  Thats my 2 cents.
  • ryanghallryanghall
    Devin,

    I would just push this flop if he's been active. I could see you getting away from it if the guy is tight. I don't like a small raise to 2500. Raising to 2500 and folding to a push seems pretty bad, so you might as well just push the flop and make it seem as though you may be on a draw. Maybe 88 or something will talk himself into a call, who knows. Don't feel bad about your play, though. Getting the money in seems to be the play.

    Ryan
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