Strange QQ Hands

beanie42

.25/.50 NL - 8 handed
MP limps
Hero ($47.50) in CO with :qc :qd - Raises to $2.25
Button ($73.75) calls - no reads, but above the buy-in, so either lucky or decent

Flop :8c :ah :8h
I hate the ace, but I can't just give up
Hero bets $4
Button calls
Grrr - he has the ace - done with the hand

Turn :7s
Hero checks
Button checks

River :qs
BINGO! Suck-out.  Pot is currently $13.25
Hero bets $6.50
Button raises to $13
Huh?  I'm confused.  Slow-played aces, or over-confident AQ (or even A8)? I have $35 back - call/raise/fold?



.25/.50 NL - 7 handed
Hero ($51.95) in MP with :qc :qh - Raises to $2.00
CO ($104.35) calls - LAG and lucky
Button ($48.85) calls - ABC player, calls a bit much

Flop :5h :9d :6d
Hero bets $7
CO folds
Button calls

Turn :qs
Hero bets $14
Button calls

River :7s
Any 8 beats me.  Pot is $48.75, and button has $25 back. Check or raise?  If check, do you call a raise here?

Otto_Troy

Beanie, 1st hand, I push....I can't put him on AA. Maybe he has a full house with an 8 and you get all his chips.

Second hand, this is one of my favorites. I most likely put this guy on a flush draw. If you lead out he will simply fold as he missed his flush. I would check hoping that he tries to bluff and then call any bet. I can't put him on an 8 unless he flopped the nuts and was slow playing the entire way.

I hate the suspense, what happened?

STR82ACE

QQ is soooo difficult at times, especially when an ace hits the flop.

First hand, I don't think you have any choice here but to push.  If he's playing AA or 88, well tough hand, otherwise you're in great shape.  Can't put him on either of those two though, not sure why...A8 more than likely.

Second hand, check.  If he leads out with a 1/2pot bet, call.  If he pushes, seriously consider throwing this one away.

compuease

#1/ Well I'm not the mathematician that some of you are (Cory!) but aren't you having to call $6.50 into a $33.75 pot, better than 5-1? Now what else could he have? How about any pair, say 10's, J's, maybe a weak A? Clear call for me. Probably re-raise if I have a good read or know him well...

#2/ You said he calls a bit much, busted flush draw? maybe 8,9? Tough one, maybe fire $14. one more time?  This one is tougher, if he comes over top for the rest of his stack, gotta call, cause he could be on 2 pair or smaller set.

DrTyore

First hand, there's one hand that beats you... put it in there

Second hand I check / call.... betting just allows him to put a bigger whammy on you, and the only hand that calls your (or raises) is the one that beats you.

Mark

pkrfce9

STR82ACE wrote:

QQ is soooo difficult at times, especially when an ace hits the flop.

hehehehe

As an aside, I find it easier to discuss at 1 hand at a time rather than 2 or more in one post.

First hand, meh, I never interpret a min-raise on the river correctly. I'd have to think he has a monster and is not afraid of a call. Unless he is tricky and wants you to think that... He's showing strength but you do have one of the top hands here. On balance I think you have to re-raise and hope to get called by a good but second-best hand.

Second hand, check call. If you bet out he folds with a busted draw and raises with a better hand. Hope to induce a bluff.

pkrfce9

DrTyore wrote:

First hand, there's one hand that beats you... put it in there

guess again...

Chugs

First hand, my only question is if i reraise all-in or only to 20 .. likely all-in since to some guys might clue in on the value bet ... while most guys who would call 20 will call an all-in

I'm damn confused
1. If he's ABC and won't bluff, then i check and fold to an all-in ... and you won't induce a bluff either
2. I think a small defensive value bet, that gets called by many second best hands ... and a reluctant call if he goes over the top is an option
3. Or the best move-in since likely you'll call the river anyways and are unlikely to get a bluff from him

DrTyore

pkrfce9 wrote:

DrTyore wrote:

First hand, there's one hand that beats you... put it in there

guess again...

Okay... quads are always out there... but so remote.... I don't count them

Mark

moose

I'm confused by both hands Trev.

hand 1 you are only behind to aces or eights. If so, congrats to him when you pay him off when you push.

hand 2 you are against a loose ABC player. Unless he flopped the straight with 78, you bet the pot twice. Do you really think an unthinking player called you down to the river with a gutshot hoping to break you if he hits? Again you pay off his flopped straight when you bet $15 and he comes over the top.

Otto_Troy

Mr. Chugs......I don't know why you state with certainty "and you won't induce a bluff either"

If I guy is on a busted flush draw against an opponent who has showed weakness....I have seen plenty of players fire in a bluff in that position...especially with such a scary board.

Anyways.....beanie I think you have gotten plenty of comments.....out with it!! What happened.

beanie42

Otto_Troy wrote:

Anyways.....beanie I think you have gotten plenty of comments.....out with it!! What happened.

LOL - sorry to keep you waiting .  I do appreciate all the comments, since these hands had me thinking.

Hand 1 - I considered flat-calling, but I pushed instead, and he showed AA.  No bad beat, and I'm not complaining either.  He played it extremely well.  From what I've seen, the normal tendency is to re-raise pre-flop.  If he did, I'd call, and then check/fold after the ace hits.  After that, the hand played itself.  Folding is wrong at the end, but I'm not sure about my re-re-raise.  However, considering the normal competition at these limits, I'm probably ahead here often enough that it makes sense.

For hand #2, I couldn't give him credit for an 8, since it didn't make any sense.  I decided to check to induce a bluff, and he pushed.  I called, and he showed 99 for second set.  I'm curious from his perspective, what would everyone do?  Given the action, it would be hard to give me credit for an 8, so only QQ beats him.  Personally, I would've re-raised on the flop, and gotten all the chips in by the river if the Q's stayed with me.  Waiting so long he slow-played himself to death (although I wouldn't have folded to a flop re-raise anyway ).

Otto_Troy

Well, its about time. I think the play by #2 illustrates the problems with slowplaying. With straight and flush possilbilities, he let a lot of hands get there to beat him. I don't mess around too much and I would have min raised the flop which would have gotten all the chips in and if you suck out great.

By the time the river comes.....with a set of nines, it's tough. With you action, I can see why he thought he was ahead and his all in is only a 1/2 sized pot bet, so I can't fault him....although in hindsight, I check could have been appropriate.

moose

As you say you can't give him credit for an 8, so why do you think a check induces a bluff?  Bluffs only have credibility when the bets make sense.  I don't see anyone bluffing here.  An ABC player is simply not going to bet his weak pair.  Good thing he had a set, otherwise I think a check costs you value here.

SirWatts

Hand 1 is an easy push.
Hand 2 I would check/call. This has the advantage of inducing some bluffs from hands like busted diamond draws.

beanie42

moose wrote:

As you say you can't give him credit for an 8, so why do you think a check induces a bluff?  Bluffs only have credibility when the bets make sense.

Most players (at these limits) don't worry about the "make sense" part.  They seem to think a bluff is simply a big bet with nothing, not necessarily representing a likely hand.  With him investing so much into the pot, I couldn't see him leaving it out there for showdown.  I've seen this so often that I expect any river-check after aggression to induce a bet from over 80% of the players.

ChrisWinsor

Here comes the Parrot
1. Push
2. Check call any amount. The only possible way the guy was chasing an inside straight draw was if he had something like A8D. I'd call any amount on that river.