Do you push on a draw?
$10+1 SNG last night, 4 players remaining.
Chip lead has over 5,000 and second has just under 4,000 chips each, third has just over 3,000 and I have just under 2000 in chips.
Third place took a big hit a few hands ago and now has turned ultra aggressive raising 5-6 hands in a row of which I never had anything decent to fight back with.
Blinds are 200/400 and I'm in the BB with J9h.
Chip lead UTG folds.
3rd on the button calls (he had raised and won 5 or 6 in a row without show down?)
2nd SB calls
and I check (pot is 1200)
Flop is ThQs5c
SB checks to me and I bet $400, yes a weak min bet the table had really tightened up once we got down to 4 places, it seemed the big stacks did not want to risk anything and were playing very passive and aside from the last few hands where the guy in third raised every single hand after a bad beat a min bet was taking the pot in most cases. I really was not confident in what to do here. I did not want to push on my draw...I have a hard time getting all my chips in the middle without a made hand and I realize the min bet was weak.....comments?
Button min re-raises me? SB folds now wtf? Do you push the draw here? I was confused by his play. I truly felt he was on a complete steal the previous 5-6 hands but never had anything to make a stand with but here his betting told me he had a hand and wanted me to push?
Again, I can make a call with a draw given odds but I have a hard time pushing without a made hand...severe leak?
Anyways, I folded to the re-raise, then pick up AJo next hand in the SB and push only to get called by the guy in third with JKo and yeah, he rivers a K and I'm out.
Chip lead has over 5,000 and second has just under 4,000 chips each, third has just over 3,000 and I have just under 2000 in chips.
Third place took a big hit a few hands ago and now has turned ultra aggressive raising 5-6 hands in a row of which I never had anything decent to fight back with.
Blinds are 200/400 and I'm in the BB with J9h.
Chip lead UTG folds.
3rd on the button calls (he had raised and won 5 or 6 in a row without show down?)
2nd SB calls
and I check (pot is 1200)
Flop is ThQs5c
SB checks to me and I bet $400, yes a weak min bet the table had really tightened up once we got down to 4 places, it seemed the big stacks did not want to risk anything and were playing very passive and aside from the last few hands where the guy in third raised every single hand after a bad beat a min bet was taking the pot in most cases. I really was not confident in what to do here. I did not want to push on my draw...I have a hard time getting all my chips in the middle without a made hand and I realize the min bet was weak.....comments?
Button min re-raises me? SB folds now wtf? Do you push the draw here? I was confused by his play. I truly felt he was on a complete steal the previous 5-6 hands but never had anything to make a stand with but here his betting told me he had a hand and wanted me to push?
Again, I can make a call with a draw given odds but I have a hard time pushing without a made hand...severe leak?
Anyways, I folded to the re-raise, then pick up AJo next hand in the SB and push only to get called by the guy in third with JKo and yeah, he rivers a K and I'm out.
Comments
Given your stack, the blinds, the lack of aggression by the other players, and your big draw, I'd have pushed on the flop.
When you get that short-stacked, you have to decide whether you're going to wait for a real hand at the risk of blinding out, or if you're going to take a chance to stay alive. Blinding out is really weak, but it is an option. However, making a min-bet is in the ugly middle, you've committed a good portion of your chips but aren't showing commitment to the hand. I think you need to be able to get comfortable pushing with a draw, but if you're not, simply check-fold and blind out. This min-bet screamed weakness, and combined with the timidity most players get on the bubble, you're asking to be pushed off.
I agree I need to overcome this weakness.....I am totally aware I play too tight and too weak near the bubble but how would you suggest I go about this? It's very easy to just say push in this instance (and I see that really check-fold or push pre-flop are my best options, I made the worst choice of plays!) but how does someone overcome their tendencies and learn to change both their outlook and approach? In the sense that rather then approaching a tourney with the outlook of 'I want to make the money' approaching it with the outlook of 'I want to win'? Ultimately and obviously I want to win every hand and ever game I play but my tendency is to try and make the money first then open it up to finish as high as possible and hopefully win. I would suspect this is a very common tendency but what can be done to try and change that?
-could it be because I'm more a limit player??? I dunno if that's the case because in limit I will aggressively bet my draws, NL I'm more hesitant to bet them but will more often call them given odds?
-could it be I'm playing over my head with respect to buy-in, sure it's only a $10 SNG but I usually play $5.50's so perhaps I am too worried about losing the $10?
Should I play micro-limit NL and SNG's such that the money means nothing? I think this is a common problem but a hard thing to change?
I don't think it's really either of these. The money is a little more than you normally play for, but you're experienced enough that I doubt it would change your play. Also, it sounds like you still follow this strategy in the smaller games anyway, so I think it's just a style/strategy thing.
I'd recommend dropping down for a bit not because the money matters so much here that you alter your play, but because you seem to have some weak tendencies that are deeply ingrained. If you play some smaller tournaments where you don't have to worry about losing your buy-in, you can experiment with some different styles. Also, you seem to get to the bubble ok, it's just the closing stage (short-stack/survival) part you need to work on, so some turbos will put you into this situation pretty quick
I think in this case you have to decide what your read on the players is. If the button has been a tricky trappy player and suddenly switched from ultra-aggressive to limping - is he slow playing a big hand? Have you seen the two players previously limp and then call a big raise with weak cards? or do the limpers fold to big raises?
You state in the OP that the table had been tight and you hoped a min bet on the flop would take it down. If that was your read then I think you should have pushed preflop and tried to take it right there.
Since you checked, when you are shortstacked, before you bet you have to decide what you are going to do if you are raised. If the answer is push - then push first. If the answer is fold then check/fold the hand.
Remember you do not need a made hand to bet, push etc. You need a made hand to call a raise or call a push when short stacked. I think you played it weak and your opponent is trying to punish you for it. I would have pushed.