What the hell do you do? 2/4 limit

AcidJoe

Here's the hand history. I was sure I was beat at the river but the almost $200 pot blinded me.

ational Velvet 10474709-27555 Holdem Limit $2/$4
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Hand Start.
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 1 : Sim 1 has $293.75
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 2 : presty has $95.75
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 3 : Mr.Cocktail has $117.91
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 4 : Prestius has $38.87
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 5 : xiolablue has $78.50
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 6 : Dikl has $219
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 7 : Marty63 has $38.50
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 8 : Acidjoe63 has $141
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Seat 9 : lilmocha has $48.25
[Sep 8 16:46:32] : Sim 1 is the dealer.
[Sep 8 16:46:33] : presty posted small blind.
[Sep 8 16:46:33] : Mr.Cocktail posted big blind.
[Sep 8 16:46:33] : Game [27555] started with 9 players.
[Sep 8 16:46:33] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Sep 8 16:46:33] : Seat 8 : Acidjoe63 has As Qs
[Sep 8 16:46:37] : Prestius called $2
[Sep 8 16:46:37] : xiolablue called $2 and raised $2
[Sep 8 16:46:40] : Dikl folded.
[Sep 8 16:46:42] : Marty63 folded.
[Sep 8 16:46:56] : It's your turn.
[Sep 8 16:46:56] : Acidjoe63 has 10 seconds to respond.
[Sep 8 16:46:57] : Acidjoe63 called $4 and raised $2
[Sep 8 16:46:58] : lilmocha folded.
[Sep 8 16:46:58] : Sim 1 called $6
[Sep 8 16:47:03] : presty called $5 and raised $2
[Sep 8 16:47:06] : Mr.Cocktail folded.
[Sep 8 16:47:10] : Prestius folded.
[Sep 8 16:47:11] : xiolablue called $4
[Sep 8 16:47:12] : Acidjoe63 called $2
[Sep 8 16:47:16] : Sim 1 called $2
[Sep 8 16:47:16] : Dealing flop.
[Sep 8 16:47:16] : Board cards [Qh 3s 4s]
[Sep 8 16:47:19] : presty bet $2
[Sep 8 16:47:20] : xiolablue called $2 and raised $2
[Sep 8 16:47:22] : Acidjoe63 called $4 and raised $2
[Sep 8 16:47:27] : Sim 1 called $6 and raised $2
[Sep 8 16:47:28] : presty called $6
[Sep 8 16:47:29] : xiolablue called $4
[Sep 8 16:47:31] : Acidjoe63 called $2
[Sep 8 16:47:31] : Dealing turn.
[Sep 8 16:47:31] : Board cards [Qh 3s 4s 3h]
[Sep 8 16:47:33] : presty checked.
[Sep 8 16:47:35] : xiolablue bet $4
[Sep 8 16:47:38] : Acidjoe63 called $4
[Sep 8 16:47:40] : Sim 1 called $4 and raised $4
[Sep 8 16:47:43] : presty called $8
[Sep 8 16:47:45] : xiolablue called $4 and raised $4
[Sep 8 16:47:47] : Acidjoe63 called $8 and raised $4
[Sep 8 16:47:49] : Sim 1 called $8
[Sep 8 16:47:50] : presty called $8
[Sep 8 16:47:51] : xiolablue called $4
[Sep 8 16:47:52] : Dealing river.
[Sep 8 16:47:52] : Board cards [Qh 3s 4s 3h Js]
[Sep 8 16:47:54] : presty bet $4
[Sep 8 16:47:55] : xiolablue called $4
[Sep 8 16:47:57] : Acidjoe63 called $4 and raised $4
[Sep 8 16:47:59] : Sim 1 called $8 and raised $4
[Sep 8 16:48:02] : presty called $8 and raised $4
[Sep 8 16:48:04] : xiolablue called $12
[Sep 8 16:48:05] : Acidjoe63 called $8
[Sep 8 16:48:09] : Sim 1 called $4
[Sep 8 16:48:10] : Showdown!
[Sep 8 16:48:10] : Seat 8 : Acidjoe63 has As Qs
[Sep 8 16:48:12] : Seat 2 : presty has Jc Jd
[Sep 8 16:48:12] : presty has Full House : Jacks full of 3s
[Sep 8 16:48:16] : Seat 1 : Sim 1 has Ts Ks
[Sep 8 16:48:16] : Sim 1 has Flush KJT43
[Sep 8 16:48:16] : presty wins $193 with Full House : Jacks full of 3s
[Sep 8 16:48:25] : Hand is over.

ScoobyD

What did xiola blue have? a lower set? overplayed AA?

Your opponents are morons. JJ should realize he's in trouble given the action on that flop, and KTs raising the turn is pretty horrid. That being said given all the action in the hand, I'd be very wary about my flush on the river given the paired board. with 3 other opponents I'd be wary at least one of them might have had a set and filled... I'd probably raise the river (as you did), but when I get 3 bet, I'm probably going into calldown mode...

AcidJoe

I don't think I played it bad, I wanted others (actually you Scoob) to critique it.  Even with the paired board they were 3's I thought my top pair with top kicker with the flush draw may be good.  Thanks for reading and your insitess.   I realize some of my opponents are morons which is why I play there.  It just hurts to lose large pots like that. 

GTA Poker

KTs raising the turn isn't horrid at a 6 handed table -- why do you say that, because he isn't drawing to the nut flush? The odds at a 10 handed table of an opponent holding a 2 card A hi flush when you hold a 2 card K hi flush are about 16:1, so at a 6 max table I would assume the odds to be roughly 28:1 or so (guesstimating, I didn't bother with the math). Getting money with drawing hands in multiway boths is a key to success at limit...unfortunately for KTs, Joe had the nut draw, but raising isn't as awful as you make it sound.

If you're confident that your opponents will be raising with KQ, QJ, etc on this hand then pund away with the nut flush draw and nut top pair, even on a paired board. Of course, if a TWeak player is raising that's a different story.

AcidJoe

Actually GTA this wasn't a 6 max table. This was 9. I think there was a lot of bad play, maybe some on my part. Blinded by the pot I THINKS.

ScoobyD

KTs raising the turn isn't horrid at a 6 handed table -- why do you say that, because he isn't drawing to the nut flush?

No, it's not the nut flush issue (I'd almost always assume a spade is good there), it's the fact he's raising the TURN. I jam the pot multiway there on the flop happily figuring my equity is pretty good (about a 1/3 of the pot), not to mention cleaning up outs, free card and other considerations.

But on the turn, our equity has dropped, so I'm not as happy to pump my draw for value. As well, the board has paired which isn't exactly good (IMO no-one is going to assume we have a 3 there and fold). 3 other opponents have shown that they like the flop, so I'm not eager to raise and re-open the betting (yes I know he didn't close it anyways), but I'd far sooner put one bet in multiway then have to put in 3 and get it headsup. I think we have equity to call, but not to raise the turn...

GTA Poker

Yeah, I would tend to just call in that spot but switching up the play at times isn't bad. Also depends on reads of some players in the hand, etc.

PokerRox

well played Joe.

You actually didn't have many (real) decisions in that hand. Two of your opponents look like they're gonna cap streets anyway so even if you call they're raising.