AA and ugly flop
I forgot about this hand until I just read about it on 2+2 from the villain. Not much discussion there yet, but I thought it would be interesting to compare notes between the different sites and perspectives (my line vs. the villians line). This isn't a bad beat story (since I think I played it like crap), but I thought it would be interesting to compare the 2 threads...
.50/1.00Â 8-handed
UTG ($178) raises to $4 -
good player (better than me) and one of the best at this site/limit. Normally tight starting hands (but has occasionally shown some pretty strange cards), solid post-flop, and capable of anything
Hero ($149) :ah :ac MP calls
UTG and I play often enough that a re-raise here would scream aces. A little dangerous, but limping to disguise my hand.
CO calls
Pot = $15
:qc :jh :10d
UTG bets $10
Ugh - I hate this flop. UTG players hand-range should be "standard", especially considering me calling (since I'm a bit tight). Hand-range here is probably AA-QQ and AK. I can beat KK or split with AA, but everything else has me beat. I seriously considered just folding here, since I believe I'm behind here a large % of the time. However, I decided that was too weak, and instead did something weaker
Hero calls
If I'm sticking around here, I really should have raised. Now I'm in no-mans land, and barring ridiculous bets, I'll end up forced to call down to the river (I don't think I can raise now, since I doubt he'll relinquish the lead, and a re-raise would be for everything)
Pot = $35
:2d
UTG bets $29
Hero calls
:qd
UTG checks
a surprising check, but I know I won't get any more out of him in the rare case I'm good, so I check behind
I don't mind my pf call, but I really think I should have raised the flop. My re-raise would have been to $40 (pot bet), so I would actually stand to lose more, but I would have at least found out where I'm at and picked up the pot or been done with the hand. Thoughts?
.50/1.00Â 8-handed
UTG ($178) raises to $4 -
good player (better than me) and one of the best at this site/limit. Normally tight starting hands (but has occasionally shown some pretty strange cards), solid post-flop, and capable of anything
Hero ($149) :ah :ac MP calls
UTG and I play often enough that a re-raise here would scream aces. A little dangerous, but limping to disguise my hand.
CO calls
Pot = $15
:qc :jh :10d
UTG bets $10
Ugh - I hate this flop. UTG players hand-range should be "standard", especially considering me calling (since I'm a bit tight). Hand-range here is probably AA-QQ and AK. I can beat KK or split with AA, but everything else has me beat. I seriously considered just folding here, since I believe I'm behind here a large % of the time. However, I decided that was too weak, and instead did something weaker
Hero calls
If I'm sticking around here, I really should have raised. Now I'm in no-mans land, and barring ridiculous bets, I'll end up forced to call down to the river (I don't think I can raise now, since I doubt he'll relinquish the lead, and a re-raise would be for everything)
Pot = $35
:2d
UTG bets $29
Hero calls
:qd
UTG checks
a surprising check, but I know I won't get any more out of him in the rare case I'm good, so I check behind
I don't mind my pf call, but I really think I should have raised the flop. My re-raise would have been to $40 (pot bet), so I would actually stand to lose more, but I would have at least found out where I'm at and picked up the pot or been done with the hand. Thoughts?
Comments
I'm not a good NL player, hell I'm not a good player period but given the PF call I would likely re-raise the flop to see where I stand...I think you really don't know where you stand in the hand right now and I hate being in that position? I'm trying to get my head around what Mike is saying about controlling the pot size and I think I see his point but what if he throws out another $30-50 on the river? Without knowing where you stand and given your read on him as "Normally tight starting hands (but has occasionally shown some pretty strange cards), solid post-flop, and capable of anything" is that an easy fold on the the river?
Had I just called the flop without trying to establish where I stand and what he could be on I think I dump on the turn...but is that weak?
The check on the river to me looks like he wants you to take a stab at the pot and I would definitely check behind him.
I'd have to say it looks to me like he's sitting on AK and trying to maximize what he can get out of you?
Due to how I played it, I probably have to make a crying call for any bet less than 1/2 the pot (and maybe a few higher). I think that's the main reason I should have taken control. Being in no-man's land on the late streets in NL is the worst possible spot considering the escalating size of bets (and this was a bit deeper stacked).
Honestly this is just wrong but most people seem to think this way. The point is to put yourself in profitable situations not make your decisions easy. You don't need to raise him at some point to find out where you're at. When he keeps coming out betting strong he's giving you the information you need. Controlling pot size is much important. If he bet the river here you could probably fold pretty easily unless he makes a very small bet or is the type to overplay AQ/KQ that badly or bluff way too much, which seems very unlikely.
Good point Mike and this makes sense to me but in this case is it not more profitable or rather less expensive to re-raise the flop in effect controlling what you're willing to risk here. If he calls or re-raises then bets the turn you can dump without further lose....as Trevor played this he's likely calling another small bet on the river losing even more? Luckily the villain checked the river which I think was a mistake.
What bet amount on the flop, turn, or river would get you to fold? Looking at the hand again I think I dump on the turn bet?
Tell us he had KK and not AK Trevor and you scooped a nice pot!
Interesting point, and it makes sense. However, aren't easier decisions usually more correct, and therefore more profitable? If all your decisions are hard, you will make more mistakes, therefore losing some of your profit. To me this is like the coin-flip thread - really good/interesting post, but I'm torn about whether I agree or not. It gives me a lot to think about, though.
This is real life, not a movie - no happy endings. He showed :as :kc , and I lose $93 pot (net $-43). I only lost $40 with aces against the best player at the table - not the worst possible result. To be honest, I didn't think twice about this hand and wouldn't even have posted it except for noticing it on 2+2 .
Interesting tho...with the second Q coming on the river, could you bluff push representing the boat? I don;t have the balls for that kind of move and I suspect he calls anyway but the reply shows that some players could fold to a large river bet?
I have to agree with you Trevor, minimal lose on a great hand with a horrid flop against a good player it could have been worse.
He's good enough to fold to a river bet, but I'm not sure he would here. Â Based on the way I was playing, I was too passive, and I would have raised a 2-pair/set before that, so I doubt he actually thinks I have the boat. Â From his perspective, I'm pretty sure the only thing he's worried about is AK of diamonds which would have backed into the fliush - otherwise he splits or scoops. Â I think his question is more to generate some discussion.