WALKING THE LINE---SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THIS PLAY

I have been trying like crazy to qualify for WPT Niagra. I have opted for the two step process. The $15 Rebuy/add-on into the $500 on Paradise.

I have played in the R/A 4 times averaging 60-70 players and 4 seats awarded. Three times I have made it to the final table with nothing to show for it except a crappy $40 consolation prize.

The structure is pretty good, but by final table time, I have always been right around average stack....with that being just barely over 10x the bb. There is a fine line between playing too tight and getting blinded to death and being too agressive and getting yourself pot committed for your tournament life with a marginal hand.

Anyways, I am looking for some tips/comments anyone might have in dealing with situation and a comment on my bust out hand. 7 Players left---4 spots. Blinds are 1K/2K/150 ante. With 16K, I am the shortstack but there are three players in the 20's.

I was in the SB and get Q-9 offsuit. It folds around to me and I jam obviously hoping the BB will fold or that I have two live cards or possibly two overs to a small pocket pair. BB has about 22K so I thinking he won't come over the top w/o a legit hand. He thinks for awhile and calls with KQoffsuit and I am dominated and sent packing. Was this the correct play? Or should I have just folded and waited for a better hand? (although I don't have too much time left).

Couple factors. Not a great read on the BB, but he seemed solid. This was also one of the few times there was an unopened pot. I had a tight table image, but this was probably negated by my raise coming for the SB.

Comments welcome?

Comments

  • I have mixed opinions on your play. first I like the steal attempt, I'd do the same. My problem is the push. I wouldn't put all my money in a unraised pot ( with 7 players left and top 4 get the seat)
    If BB is going to fold he'll "probably" fold with a pot size bet. If he calls then you get to see the flop knowing your probably an underdog and you can play the hand accordingly. If he reraises you well you tried, lost about 1/4 of your stack but still have life. My main point is this (in my opinion) I try to not put all my chips in before the flop unless I'm sure I'm leading or I'm at push or fold mode. when it's down near the bubble I play very aggresively, but I always leave myself room for losing hands here and there.
  • Yeah, that was definantly a possiblity. It is just such a touchy spot and if I had more chips I would have employed that strategy....and maybe still should. My concern with that play is that is shows weakness. I agree that if he has a crap hand he will fold if I push or pot size bet. But what if he has a hand like Q-10. Does a min. raise show enough weakness that he jams and I am still dominated? Or maybe he folds a Q-10 to an all-in push and I win a pot I shouldn't. It's just so tricky....and I doubt that if I am folding to a re-jam (not a math whiz, but I'm thinking I'm priced in....it's not like I can put him on a big pair).

    Thanks for the comment...I guess when it comes down to it If I were in the exact same position next time I still don't know what the right play is....not that there is an easy answer. Your play is probably more prudent with survival being so important. Next time, I will request KK.
  • With 8BB left, I think that I would have folded here and hope for a better hand to go all in with.
    By this point, I would hope all the bingo players are gone.
    I've rail birded these for the past few days and watched some guy rebuy 8 times in the first 2 rounds.

    I think that if you are making the final table 3 of 4 times, you are definitely doing something right.
    Let us know how you make out...I may take that route too.

    Hobbes
  • What you should have done is, peak at your cards, then get super excited and yell ALL IN!!!!! Then try to look confused and mutter to yourself... "ahh! I should have slow-played". He'll fold KK... I guarantee it!

    /g2
  • I think the push is fine. You have 8 BBs, so putting 3 in practically commits youself. The BB may even then decide to call with something like T9s or something hoping to hit on you. So The push play is good. As for finding a better hand, he could do that, but his raise only has to go through 1 opponent, and its not like they're both super deep stacked. I think the BB call was a bit on the loose side, as hes calling off his tournament life with KQ. You're the one pushing, and pushing is better than calling.
  • There was a great article on pocketfives.com on how to win satellites into the WSOP etc which would carry over quite nicely into your situation, the link eludes me but youshould check in the strat archives on the left or in the articles by guest authors, the title of the article gives it away as to what I am talking about.
  • Hobbes, I think any decent player should jump in. While I haven't won yet, there are just a lot of bad players...that's why I keep trying. If you are railbirding, my screen name on Paradise is "Troy Otto"...how original. When I opened my account I mistoke the name box for Display name. I emailed paradise and you can't change your screename. Unreal.

    Anyways, I am determined to get to Niagra and I think this is the most economical route. We'll see.
  • If 4 advance, i'd fold and wait for a better hand where you know you are in the lead.
  • "If 4 advance, i'd fold and wait for a better hand where you know you are in the lead."

    If only it were that easy. Problem is blinds were big and getting bigger. I don't have unlimited orbits to pick up a hand....and the big stack was doing a good job of bullying the table...so steal attempts to keep afloat were limited.

    Still....folding was a viable option.
  • Were the blinds going up in the next orbit or two? 18k 3k for the next round and 3/4 or so to pick up a better hand than Q9.
  • Standard.
  • If 4 advance, i'd fold and wait for a better hand where you know you are in the lead.
    In the current situation, he's the short stack. The pot already contains 4-5K in chips, where he could viability have th ebest hand. A hand like 93 (which will happen like 90% of the time) won't call him. And at the current blinds, he has fold equity with his bet. If the blinds go around and it comes back, he won't have this type of position again. ANd if the blinds go to 1.5K-3K, he'll have like 10K after the blinds hit.

    He has 16K, minus the 1K for the SB if he folds he'll have 15K. Assuming the 6 hands go and he his the SB/BB at 1.5K/3K, thats another 5.5K he's just lost in the orbit. He's got to pick up a solid orbit whenever possible to stay afloat with the structure and to have the shot at becoming top 4. Would you rather have him push a hand like A5o in the SB? where the BB would be more capable of calling with A9? at least with Q9 he has a shot at having two live ones if called and wouldn't be in that bad of a shape against 1 random player.

    In all honesty, if you aren't making this a standard play to your arsenal, you're losing out on value and its a big weak leak in your short stack game.
  • I'd raise with that hand, but not my whole stack. Just enough for him to muck rags.
  • TexLexus wrote:
    I'd raise with that hand, but not my whole stack. Just enough for him to muck rags.

    That's not an option though. Any raise pot commits you, so put maximal pressure on him. Like Titler said, this is a super super standard play and if you're not making it regularly it's a big leak.
  • Well, I think this story has been beatin to a pulp and I appreciate the feedback. More times than not, I take down that pot unchallenged and than don't give it much thought. The few times I stub my toe making that play it burns at you.

    0-2 last night in the same tourney. One very bad runner/runner bad beat that I will spare everyone and one just typical combination of cold deck and poor play.

    Troy

    ps. I know the Party Poker CPC was a terribly produced show, but some solid players have come from there.

    Shannon Shorr is in the top 50 for Player of the Year award and currently at the final table of the Bellagio Cup 10K event after cashing in the WSOP main event.

    Eric Baldwin just finished 6th in the final WSOP $1500 event.

    Richard Toth took 2nd earlier in a WSOP event

    David Matthew took 2nd in the WPT Championship 25K event; and

    Captain Tom Franklin cashed in more than one WSOP event this year.
  • Tough beat with those Aces last night when you lost to Q7o (flopped 2pr)
    Guys you need to raise more than 3-4BB with these guys. ALthough they pretty much call anything.
  • That was nothing compared to the hand when I flopped the nut straight 9-10-J rainbow holding KQ and got it all in on the flop against A-10? Turn 10, River A. Bye Bye....Troy. I just laughed.
  • Ouch..I missed that one.
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