Another 30/60 Stars hand.

UnknownUnknown
in Online Poker
PokerStars Game #564215603: Hold'em Limit ($30/$60) - 2004/07/23 - 21:11:49 (ET)
Table 'Kochab' Seat #10 is the button
Seat 1: thee outlaw ($387 in chips)
Seat 2: solid player ($2025 in chips)
Seat 3: eyegetpaid ($552 in chips)
Seat 4: mm-nh ($480 in chips)
Seat 5: all aces ($1660 in chips)
Seat 6: astarisborn ($1560 in chips)
Seat 7: icfishies ($2201 in chips)
Seat 8: unknown player ($676 in chips)
Seat 10: doitright ($2280.50 in chips)
thee outlaw: posts small blind $15
solid player: posts big blind $30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [7:club: 7:heart: ]
eyegetpaid: folds
mm-nh: folds
all aces: raises $30 to $60
astarisborn: folds
icfishies: folds
unknown player: calls $60
doitright: calls $60
thee outlaw: folds
solid player: calls $30
*** FLOP *** [Q:diamond: 7:spade: K:diamond: ]
Teldar: checks
all aces: bets $30
unknown player: calls $30
doitright: folds
solid player: calls $30
*** TURN *** [9:diamond: ]
solid player: checks
all aces: bets $60
unknown player: raises $60 to $120
solid player: calls $120
all aces: calls $60
*** RIVER *** [A:club: ]
solid player: checks
all aces: checks
unknown player: bets $60
solid player: calls $60
all aces:

Do you call here? I think the turn call was pretty straightforward given my outs, and the pot... but what about the river overcall? $825 in the pot.

The turn bet is, I admit, questionable.

Regards,
all_aces

Comments

  • stpboystpboy
    Call. I'm saying both have two pair. Unknown likely flopped the two pair, of course he could have the flush but I say it is worth it to see it.
  • Josh FPJosh FP
    I think its a pretty easy call in a limit game despite there being straight and flush possability on the board. Its a decent sized pot, if solid player raised I'd consider throwing it away, but its only 1 big bet and there is 14 or so big bets in the pot.

    I could be very wrong in my thinking though.
  • UnknownUnknown
    No, I don't think you're wrong... it is a fairly easy call. It was just a very unsettling one. That turn card 'killed' me in a couple of ways: obviously, it completes a flush draw, and it also completes an open-ended TJ straight draw from the flop. I was absolutely certain that the solid player had the straight, and I wasn't sure what the unknown player had. Anyways, here's how it ended:

    PokerStars Game #564215603: Hold'em Limit ($30/$60) - 2004/07/23 - 21:11:49 (ET)
    Table 'Kochab' Seat #10 is the button
    Seat 1: thee outlaw ($387 in chips)
    Seat 2: solid player ($2025 in chips)
    Seat 3: eyegetpaid ($552 in chips)
    Seat 4: mm-nh ($480 in chips)
    Seat 5: all aces ($1660 in chips)
    Seat 6: astarisborn ($1560 in chips)
    Seat 7: icfishies ($2201 in chips)
    Seat 8: unknown player ($676 in chips)
    Seat 10: doitright ($2280.50 in chips)
    thee outlaw: posts small blind $15
    solid player: posts big blind $30
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to all aces [7:club: 7:heart: ]
    eyegetpaid: folds
    mm-nh: folds
    all aces: raises $30 to $60
    astarisborn: folds
    icfishies: folds
    unknown player: calls $60
    doitright: calls $60
    thee outlaw: folds
    solid player: calls $30
    *** FLOP *** [Q:diamond: 7:spade: K:diamond: ]
    Teldar: checks
    all aces: bets $30
    unknown player: calls $30
    doitright: folds
    solid player: calls $30
    *** TURN *** [9:diamond: ]
    solid player: checks
    all aces: bets $60
    unknown player: raises $60 to $120
    solid player: calls $120
    all aces: calls $60
    *** RIVER *** [A:club: ]
    solid player: checks
    all aces: checks
    unknown player: bets $60
    solid player: calls $60
    all aces: calls $60
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    unknown player: shows [3:spade: A:spade: ] (a pair of Aces)
    solid player: shows [A:diamond: 5:spade: ] (a pair of Aces)
    all aces: shows [7:club: 7:heart: ] (three of a kind, Sevens)
    all aces collected $882 from pot.

    Regards,
    all_aces
  • SirBrySirBry
    oh my...
  • Adam**Adam**
    I think SOLIDPLAYER needs to change his name.......
  • JayJay
    Adam** wrote:
    I think SOLIDPLAYER needs to change his name.......

    Haha, I agree.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Yep. His pre-flop call was bad, and his flop call was HORRIBLE. The call on the turn for $120 I'm not sure about... haven't done the math to determine if the pot was laying him correct odds to draw one card to his nut flush possibility. Probably not, but there was a lot of money in there at that point. Regardless, that flop call sucked.

    Regards,
    all_aces
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    Hmmm... I thought I had replied to this. My basic idea was that you have to call the river for only one more bet since the pot's too big.

    The $120 draw for the nut flush is actually slightly wrong in terms of pot odds, becomes slightly more wrong if he assumes the board pairing diamond is no good, and is slightly correct if he assumes spiking an Ace is good in addition to the flush draw. It's pretty borderline whatever the assumptions are, so calling $120 cold is by no means a clear mistake.

    Another question: What do you do with your set if the A:diamond: 5:spade: *raises* the river?

    He would probably have to be psychic to actually make such a play, but I it does hint at the general importance of bluffing on the river when the pot is big.

    ScottyZ
  • UnknownUnknown
    My basic idea was that you have to call the river for only one more bet since the pot's too big.
    Agreed... I guess the thing that I found interesting about this hand was that I was sure I was beat. If not by the flush, then by the straight. Never before have I felt so certain about being beat but still made the call anyways. As you (and others) have pointed out, the math of the situation dictates that a call is correct, therefore, it's correct.
    calling $120 cold is by no means a clear mistake.
    Yeah, his play on the turn was OK. That's about it, though.
    Another question: What do you do with your set if the A:diamond: 5:spade: *raises* the river?

    He would probably have to be psychic to actually make such a play, but I it does hint at the general importance of bluffing on the river when the pot is big.
    I probably would have laid my hand down. More to the point: I would have laid it down. And then I would have e-mailed Stars about possible collusion at the table, because after the betting and raising from the unknown player (who had nothing), A:diamond: 5:spade: would indeed have to be psychic to make such a play. Heads-up, I can see it being a good play, but against all of that represented strength out there, check-raising the river with one pair is sheer lunacy.

    I'll have to try it sometime. ;)

    Regards,
    all_aces
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