BB play with two aggresors
20/40 hand at BCC.
I'm in the BB with 98 spades. Two early callers, late MP raises, cutoff calls, SB folds and I call in the BB as two the other two limpers. Five of us see the flop. Standard line up with mostly loose aggressives and nothing too crazy. Sets wait till the turn to show up, as most two pair hands. Only guys that can disguise those hands are not at the table.Â
:ts :8d :js
I check, EP checks, and next guy bets into the PF raiser who raises. Folded to me an it's an easy call. Fold and donk bettor re-raises and PF raiser caps and I call two cold.
Turn is  :5c .
I check, donker checks and PF raiser bets. I call as does the donker. I'm not sure I liked how the flop and turn went. What do you guys think?
Cheers
Magi
I'm in the BB with 98 spades. Two early callers, late MP raises, cutoff calls, SB folds and I call in the BB as two the other two limpers. Five of us see the flop. Standard line up with mostly loose aggressives and nothing too crazy. Sets wait till the turn to show up, as most two pair hands. Only guys that can disguise those hands are not at the table.Â
:ts :8d :js
I check, EP checks, and next guy bets into the PF raiser who raises. Folded to me an it's an easy call. Fold and donk bettor re-raises and PF raiser caps and I call two cold.
Turn is  :5c .
I check, donker checks and PF raiser bets. I call as does the donker. I'm not sure I liked how the flop and turn went. What do you guys think?
Cheers
Magi
Comments
You're in decent shape on the flop unless someone has a set (not likely given your general player description since no-one is slowplaying the flop) or two overcard spades.
Although I would consider joining in on betting and/or raising on the flop, I prefer the check-n-call on the turn.
Hope the :7h came off.
ScottyZ
Bet three bet this.
I like what you did best, right now the pot's large enough and you're under the radar with a ton of outs. I would bet that late MP puts you on middle two pair (he knows you're BB) or top pair with Ace kicker at best if you start betting the turn. And if you lead and call the flop that's a sign that your protecting your draw.
My first reaction was that late MP and donk were betting overpairs...
I disagree. You have MASSIVE equity in this pot unless you're specifically up against a bigger flush draw (a set isn't great other, but it's not the end of the world). I think you want to get in as many bets on this flop as you can while keeping as many people involved in this hand as possible. I think this is best accomplished by leading out/3 bet/capping the flop.
I guess it comes down to preference then. You're totally correct in method, that's the way to build the pot. However I don't believe that this particular situation calls for it. If he had top pair and flush draw than I would go for it but I completely understand your reasoning when he has straight flush (and consequently flush and straight) draws too. The numbers may point you towards one way but my instinct's pullin me the other. I really think Lou was up against an overpair and a set of jacks or tens. I would let them build the pot for me (which is what he did) and get paid off when I hit. If true, he's still got great odds, the set will half the time, and he's left with around 40% and the overpair is practically dead.
edit: if this was a tournament or even a NL cash game I would definetely put pressure on my opponents, but for this hand in limit I'd lay low. The pot's more than decent and my hand's 40% on the flop and 30 on the turn.
Why? What outs are trouble?
The way I see it:
I assume Hero has 9 spade outs. Assuming you're up against a bigger flush draw is so rare I don't put much stock in that. But of course if you hit a spade on the turn (besides the 7 or Q) then the others have a redraw to a bigger flush (possibly). So let's say 8 outs if you want to be conservative.
I think the 3 7's are good, although there's a small chance of a chop if we hit this. Maybe call this 2.5 outs.
A Q is a little sketchy because there's some chance the pfr may have AK (although he's playing like more of a made hand, so this seems unlikely. I'd maybe go conservative and figure 1-1.5 outs here.
I consider a 9 almost completely worthless.
An 8 has some chance of being good unless we're already up against a set. Given hero's read of standard overplaying weak hands/draws and slowplaying big hands like sets, I'm not 100% convinced of a set. I give the 8 maybe an out or so.
So hero has on average maybe 8+2.5+1.5+1 = 13 outs. Plenty of equity in a multiway pot.
As you folks point out, I've got tons of pot equity so my plays are pretty flexible. I think I like my flop play, as I don't like to lead to gain the maximum amount of information from my opponents. So, given his cap, and preflop raise I can put a high percentage of him on an overpair. What the other guy is holding is more open. He may be on a flush draw, or pair and straight draw.
I can safely put in three bets on the turn with proper pot odds (~11BB in the pot) IF I can clean up my outs and get the pot heads up. So, on the slim chance one of my opponents has a set and is willing to pump the turn it would be more likely they are on a big made hand -- straight or set -- and I'm down to 9 or 7 outs which still makes 3 bets on the turn ok.
I think I should have check-raised the pre-flop raiser. That way I would be really hard for the other guy to hang in there with a straight draw and would make it really hard for the pre-flop raiser to stay in the pot. There is a chance I might win the pot on the turn with a check raise. Also, if the donker calls 80 cold, I can get a reall good feel if he's on a flush draw. That way I don't over pay if a flush hits the river. And if my straight flush hits, they would never put me on a flush draw and I make a huge payday.
And then there's the meta game. This is a game with many regulars. I need to throw in a turn check raise on the come to get paid on big hands.Â
So, after a long thought process and your help I'm leaning toward the turn check raise.
Cheers
Magi
With 5 players in I bet the flop, I couldn't be happier with as many people seeing the turn as possible for as many bets as possible. I don't want to limit the field in this situation. Hopefully EP players are ones who call a single bet and are then pot committed in their finds for a cap.
I check and call on the turn, obviously Preflop Raiser isn't letting go of his hand. Get as much equity as possible on the flop from as many players as possible and get to the river as cheaply as possible on the turn.