Folding an OESD on flop in multiway pot - standard?

ScoobyD

Table's been fairly loose...

***** Hand History for Game 4656829751 *****
$5/$10 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, July 04, 21:41:18 ET 2006
Table Push Daddy (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Masahiro3k ( $281 )
Seat 3: tanith_belbin ( $639.85 )
Seat 10: mckee111 ( $570.58 )
Seat 4: PrioriSion ( $192.24 )
Seat 6: ScoobD ( $350.50 )
Seat 2: danver3 ( $218.50 )
Seat 9: knish25 ( $130 )
Seat 7: Srn999 ( $242.50 )
Seat 8: achilles_911 ( $201.50 )
Seat 5: mjch1234 ( $294 )
mjch1234 posts small blind [$2].
ScoobD posts big blind [$5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ScoobD [  Tc 5d ]
Srn999 folds.
achilles_911 calls [$5].
knish25 folds.
mckee111 calls [$5].
Masahiro3k calls [$5].
danver3 folds.
tanith_belbin folds.
PrioriSion calls [$5].
mjch1234 calls [$3].
ScoobD checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, 9s, 7c ]
mjch1234 checks.
ScoobD checks.
achilles_911 checks.
mckee111 bets [$5].
Masahiro3k calls [$5].
PrioriSion raises [$10].
mjch1234 calls [$10].
ScoobD folds.

I can't remember the last time I folded an OESD in a biggish multiway pot, but this seemed like the time...  I figure with this many people interested I probably only have 6 "clean" outs and I'm often chopping even if I do hit one of my "probable" clean outs.  Not to mention I'm still facing redraws vs. flushes or boats, and there's a chance I'm already up against the nuts or QT in which case a 6 or J might not even be good.  So I figure on average I might have 2-3 effective outs here.  Facing $10 into a pot of $60 (not closing the action) it just doesn't look like I'm getting the right price to chase this.  Or maybe I'm on crack...?  Thoughts?

AcidJoe

I guess it comes down to what you think mckee111 is going to do. If he reraises I would be whapping myself for getting involved. I'm taking from how the betting is going that it is limit. I can't remember the last time I folded one either.

I don't like calling here in this hand. I either fold or I re raise with my draw. The reraise will now cause a few people to fold (I hope) taking down the Q T hands you fear and possibly the flush draws but most likely not the nut flush. The re raise will end up being capped IMO so your in for lots more than either a call or fold. I usually like showing some aggression with my draws but your not smoking crack Scoob. If no one folds it costs you lots and your down to very few outs to save you.

I"d boil it down to this. If I was winning and hitting I'd re raise. If I was losing or treading water I'd fold. I think your up against a set here so your definately behind. I would fold before calling.

As our previous discussion went, this is a LARGE problem hand with the unsuited unconnecting cards in a multi way pot.

Given that discussion here is where our different styles go their separate ways. I understand the fold completely, and may even do it myself. I am curious as to how this played out.

ScoobyD

Results (not that it really matters):

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, 9s, 7c ]
mjch1234 checks.
ScoobD checks.
achilles_911 checks.
mckee111 bets [$5].
Masahiro3k calls [$5].
PrioriSion raises [$10].
mjch1234 calls [$10].
ScoobD folds.
achilles_911 calls [$10].
mckee111 calls [$5].
Masahiro3k calls [$5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
mjch1234 checks.
achilles_911 bets [$10].
mckee111 folds.
Masahiro3k calls [$10].
PrioriSion calls [$10].
mjch1234 calls [$10].
** Dealing River ** [ Th ]
mjch1234 checks.
achilles_911 checks.
Masahiro3k bets [$10].
PrioriSion folds.
mjch1234 calls [$10].
achilles_911 calls [$10].
Masahiro3k shows [ 8h, Qh ] a straight, eight to queen.
mjch1234 doesn't show [ 4s, As ] a straight, seven to jack.
achilles_911 doesn't show [ Ks, Ts ] a straight, seven to jack.
Masahiro3k wins $147 from the main pot with a straight, eight to queen.

I simply can't imagine how the KTs doesn't lead or 3 bet that flop with that many people involved. I'd be figuring I have at least 15 outs. I "probably" would have taken down a split pot with the KTs assuming he raises the turn when I lead and assuming the Q8 wouldn't call 2 cold with 3rd pair and a gutshot. But that's results oriented thinking anyways...I was pretty happy with the fold considering how ugly my pot equity was on the flop vs the flush draw and getting freerolled by the KTs as well.

AcidJoe

Given how it played out I think you may not have gotten rid of mr Q 8.  But certainly 3 betting the flop would have been a good move given what everyone had.  I prefer a fold to a call and would NOT haved called.  It would be either raise or fold here for me.  If it was stars the Q 8 would have called me down and I would have lost.  Good fold Scoob.  I was actually more curious to see what they had to see who might have gone to a 3 bet.

BBC Z

You got shut out when it was raised in front of you.

SirWatts

Yeah the fold looks good. You're rarely drawing to more than a chop and sometimes JT has you in really bad shape, not to mention there's also a flush draw. Good fold.