HU SNG's waste of time?
How do people here do @ HU SNG's online?
I find that even if I am in the $ 60%+ of the time my ROI is like less than 10%, which sucks a**.
Somehow, they dont seem to be too profitable. Anyone here have success with them?
I find that even if I am in the $ 60%+ of the time my ROI is like less than 10%, which sucks a**.
Somehow, they dont seem to be too profitable. Anyone here have success with them?
Comments
If you're winning 60% then in theory your ROI would be 60-40 = 20% (with no rake). If it's only 10% after rake, then the rake is eating you alive.
I thought "typical" HU SNG vig was more like 5% (on Stars). If it is 10% where you're playing you may want to consider playing a different site...
First lets look at regular sit n go's. I will use an ROI of 25%.
If you play 10 Sit n go's at $10+$1 you have invested $110
Your 25% ROI will net a Gross of $137.50 for a net profit $27.50
Divide by 10 and you have a profit of $2.75 per sit n go.
Now Heads Up.
10 @ $10+$1 again = $110
We Know that heads up if you are a .500 player you lose. The rake makes you a loser. So what if you won 6 out 10 times HU?Â
You would gross 6 X $20 = $120 for a net of $10
Divided by 10 for a profit of $1 per sit n go.
Obviously the full ring is the way to go.
But what about the time factor?
If you average 1 hour to play each 10 person sit n go you have earned $2.75/hr.
20 mins per HU match and you can play 3 per hour for a profit of $3/hr.
The moral of the story is dont waste your time playing $10 sit n gos.Â
Work at McDonalds for $7/hr instead.
I don't think the original poster made any sort of statement about expected win rate in terms of hourly rate, let alone comparing it to a "job".
Most people here probably start playing because they enjoy the game, want to learn more and want to get better. Eventually they do, they see better results, and naturally want to maximize their overall "return", which I don't necessarily think is 100% monetary (I'd say it's a combination of enjoyment, risk tolerance in terms of the stakes the person is playing wrt to their BR, and expected return at their game of choice). If you're playing so much poker that you hate the game and are thinking of it in terms of solely an hourly rate (like a job), I'd venture that your results/play will suffer from it.
Now on the other hand if you have an odd intrinsic enjoyment of preparing fast food for low pay, then yes...working at McDonald's "might" provide a better return for your time invested...
No he didn't phrase it exactly as you did Scooby but my point was that comparing heads up play by ROI alone does not give a full picture.
So..what is their maximized return? He used the terms "ROI" and "profit". I was responding based on that.  Now everyone has different motivations for playing. Some for fun, some are here to gamble and some play to make money. Not everyone has to take my adivse but I hope it atleast makes them think about things in a way they haven't before.
I think your play will actually improve if you think about this as a job. If you have goals and expectations of what you are trying to accomplish by playing poker you will be a better player.Â
If you are here purely for enjoyment or excitement you are more likely to look for opportuities to gamble rather than make smart plays. And if you are...great! Get your dead money in there and PM me when ever you log on!
I wasn't expecting to get flamed with my response here. I can't think of what might have touched a nerve with you.
Oh by the way...I will have fries with that!
Caddy
Yeah but I don't get to sit on my ass, drink beer, show up whenever I want and listen to my favourite tunes. You want a job like that, you have to work for the government.
Structure was $6.25 buy in....$12 to the winner...Was curious what ROI people are getting when they are "good" HU players. And point taken about comparison of ROI does not give the whole picture, you cannot compare full table SNG's and HU SNG's by ROI ONLY strictly speaking, you have to figure in multi tabling, and length of games as well as rake.
I am not debating whether to work @ McDic's or play online SNG's ! As for $/hr my win rate would be laughed at by most. I do it to learn, and cause I enjoy it...I try not to lose money at this hobby.
Cadillac made some good points for me to think about. I dont think I could multi-table HU games since you really have to pay attention to patterns and the flow of each game - whereas a full table SNG in the early stages can be played almost robotically.
Thanks for the comments.
Wasn't my intent. Your point of thinking about not only ROI but time invested IMO is a very valid point.
I think the problem I had was this:
Many people here play for low stakes or even micro stakes. To dismiss the entire post based on the stakes of the game isn't productive. People have different reasons for playing (maybe he just started playing HU and decided he didn't want to risk large amounts of his BR playing $100 HU matches since he knows little about the game). If someone was to ask opinions on the best play at a $2-5 limit game at Brantford would you simply state: "It's $2-5 it doesn't matter. Ask me again if you're playing $20-$40 or up..."
Let me be the first to say "I'm Sorry."
I was attempting to be funny. I used numbers in my example from $10 SNG's because this is the arena that I play in. I am not a snob about stakes. Play wherever you bankroll will allow or wherever you comfortable.
I didn't "dismiss" his post. I took the time to make an intelligent response and it should be obvious that time is something I value.
Just trying to contribute.
Stonecold asked great question! I would love to hear what the Win% is for HU players. I have played 23 of them and I am at 12 wins. Is it even possible to win 8 out of 10 over the long term?
Cheers
Caddy
Wouldn't be the first time something got lost in translation on this forum...
Every night that I don't play in a live game (and many nights when I do) I play my brother headsup on the coffee table, which has done more for advancing my poker game than anything. Online is equally useful, and if you can win >50% of your matches and cover the fees, then you are at least gaining valuable heads up experience. I know a few people who have found a nice little niche playing almost exclusively heads-up online, and not at very high stakes... One way you can increase your expected earnings is beat a weak player (especially one who talks too much) and ask for a rematch, you'd be amazed how many times the same guy will dump money down on you just to try and prove a point!
Bottom line is you'll earn more money in other games by getting 'smarter' from heads-up experience... I wouldn't play it exclusively myself, but it is no waste of time at any stakes!
The heads up experience is invaluable !
and you only need to win slightly better than 1 in 4 to break even.
The competition is pretty weak IMO, not hard to be profitable.
While I do win on the stars HU the blind schedule leads to a very long play time which I don't like. I like the pacific done in 10-20 minute route.
Wow great job Joe!
Do you find you totally adjust your style to the player or do you make minor adjustments to your game based on your opponent?
My stats are not as impressive as yours (I am just over 50%) So it is not profitable but it is great practice.
I would be interested to get some insight into your thought process.
Cheers,
Caddy