GBH Report -- Lee feel free to comment on my criticisims
It's been almost 2 years since I've played in a casino in Ontario, mostly due to every casino being an hour or more from my house. I promised myself this week that I'd go check out a casino game Friday night as I am constantly playing under my bankroll in amy limit games that I can find underground.
So, off to GBH I go.
50 minutes after I leave my house my name is on 10 20 and 20 40 lists.
1.5h after I leave my house I'm seated in an 11 handed (ugh...but I knew that before I went) 10 20 game in seat one. Sitting in seat one in an 11 hnaded game is akin to playing poker in a phone-booth.
I buy-in $800, for which takes about 5 minutes for the most inept dealer I've seen in at least 3 years (I play in alot of clubs and the dealers there are generally very good to great) to count out 4 stacks of reds and 4 black chips. I say I want all red and here we go again. I post behind the button and away we go. Dealer is horrid. We are paying $12/h and he is getting out maybe 25 hands an hour...horrid. Seat 1 also gave me privy to his odour, also horrid. Fortunately, he is out of the box after a bit and the next dealer is very good. As for the game...sofffffffffffffffftttttttttttt, passive 7 players per flop type of game, I miss everything for an hour or so and am down $250. I get called to 20 40 being told that it will start right away (a new, 2nd table was opening). I had just played my big bling and had paid my session fee 10 minutes prior, but I figure if the 20 40 is starting I want in.
20 40....I take my remaining $550 over and noone is sitting. It takes 20 minutes to get 7 handed and then we start. We have to pay a session fee right at the start at we hit the 1/2h mark. So, I could have sat at the 10 20 and played an orbit if I was better informed by the floor. I don't really care much, but the disorganization is astounding.
All the 20 40 dealers were great....Tim (Jim?) excellent dealer, Martha excellent, Rocky very good. Very impressive compared to my first impression with the 10 20 clown. TimJim was saying that they weren't going to let anyone deal 20 40 anymore if they don't get out 47 hands per hour. i thought that was a bit optimistic, but it's nice to hear that they are trying to attain some level of proficiency in a time-charge game.
Anyhow, the 20 40 had 4-5 solid players, a couple of half-clued-in players and 2-3 clueless players. I was seeing 83s played in EP, 54o in EP, q7s and k6s turned-over regularly, players in EP calling UTG raises with JTo and staying in heads up all the way for gutshots on the river...not a bad table at all. The play varied a bit, but for the most part we would get 3-4 per flop, 6-7 at times. I played for 4 hours or so and won $800, so up $500 on the night...very beatable game, I'll go back for sure.
Annoyances/negatives -- 11 handed, meh. Changing cash for chips at the table, ridiculous...get a friggin chip runner...I'm paying a session fee and have to sit there at least twice an hour and watch a dealer cut out 5 to 8 stacks of red for a new player. One horrrrrrid dealer. Floor is a bit unorganized. I wish it were closer to my house.
Pluses -- some great 20 40 dealers...the 10 20 seemed incredibly soft/passive. The 20 40 that I sat was certainly beatable, but not an action game like I expected for a Friday night at that limit. It seems that the 407 doesn't track my car ever since I got a trailer-hitch bike-rack put in place last summer.
For those of you tinfoil-hat wearing online is rigger players, the following occured on a live 20 40 table.
9 handed. UTG calls (I've seen him play 54o in EP), folded to me in MP with KK, I raise. New player in SB calls, solid player in BB calls, UTG calls.
Flop KQ2, 2 hearts. SB bet, BB raise, UTG fold, I call, SB reraises, BB caps (I immediately put him on a set of queens), I stall a bit and call, sb calls (I put him on nut flush draw).
Turn KQ28, 2 hearts/2 spades. SB bet, BB raise, I reraise, SB calls, BB calls.
River, KQ285, 3 spades. Check/check...I bet and both call. SB AA, BB QQ, me KK set. Me happy...me finally win a hand. Me win big pot.
Also saw quads twice in 20 mins and people spike 2 outers 3 times on the river in an hour...me no care.
So, off to GBH I go.
50 minutes after I leave my house my name is on 10 20 and 20 40 lists.
1.5h after I leave my house I'm seated in an 11 handed (ugh...but I knew that before I went) 10 20 game in seat one. Sitting in seat one in an 11 hnaded game is akin to playing poker in a phone-booth.
I buy-in $800, for which takes about 5 minutes for the most inept dealer I've seen in at least 3 years (I play in alot of clubs and the dealers there are generally very good to great) to count out 4 stacks of reds and 4 black chips. I say I want all red and here we go again. I post behind the button and away we go. Dealer is horrid. We are paying $12/h and he is getting out maybe 25 hands an hour...horrid. Seat 1 also gave me privy to his odour, also horrid. Fortunately, he is out of the box after a bit and the next dealer is very good. As for the game...sofffffffffffffffftttttttttttt, passive 7 players per flop type of game, I miss everything for an hour or so and am down $250. I get called to 20 40 being told that it will start right away (a new, 2nd table was opening). I had just played my big bling and had paid my session fee 10 minutes prior, but I figure if the 20 40 is starting I want in.
20 40....I take my remaining $550 over and noone is sitting. It takes 20 minutes to get 7 handed and then we start. We have to pay a session fee right at the start at we hit the 1/2h mark. So, I could have sat at the 10 20 and played an orbit if I was better informed by the floor. I don't really care much, but the disorganization is astounding.
All the 20 40 dealers were great....Tim (Jim?) excellent dealer, Martha excellent, Rocky very good. Very impressive compared to my first impression with the 10 20 clown. TimJim was saying that they weren't going to let anyone deal 20 40 anymore if they don't get out 47 hands per hour. i thought that was a bit optimistic, but it's nice to hear that they are trying to attain some level of proficiency in a time-charge game.
Anyhow, the 20 40 had 4-5 solid players, a couple of half-clued-in players and 2-3 clueless players. I was seeing 83s played in EP, 54o in EP, q7s and k6s turned-over regularly, players in EP calling UTG raises with JTo and staying in heads up all the way for gutshots on the river...not a bad table at all. The play varied a bit, but for the most part we would get 3-4 per flop, 6-7 at times. I played for 4 hours or so and won $800, so up $500 on the night...very beatable game, I'll go back for sure.
Annoyances/negatives -- 11 handed, meh. Changing cash for chips at the table, ridiculous...get a friggin chip runner...I'm paying a session fee and have to sit there at least twice an hour and watch a dealer cut out 5 to 8 stacks of red for a new player. One horrrrrrid dealer. Floor is a bit unorganized. I wish it were closer to my house.
Pluses -- some great 20 40 dealers...the 10 20 seemed incredibly soft/passive. The 20 40 that I sat was certainly beatable, but not an action game like I expected for a Friday night at that limit. It seems that the 407 doesn't track my car ever since I got a trailer-hitch bike-rack put in place last summer.
For those of you tinfoil-hat wearing online is rigger players, the following occured on a live 20 40 table.
9 handed. UTG calls (I've seen him play 54o in EP), folded to me in MP with KK, I raise. New player in SB calls, solid player in BB calls, UTG calls.
Flop KQ2, 2 hearts. SB bet, BB raise, UTG fold, I call, SB reraises, BB caps (I immediately put him on a set of queens), I stall a bit and call, sb calls (I put him on nut flush draw).
Turn KQ28, 2 hearts/2 spades. SB bet, BB raise, I reraise, SB calls, BB calls.
River, KQ285, 3 spades. Check/check...I bet and both call. SB AA, BB QQ, me KK set. Me happy...me finally win a hand. Me win big pot.
Also saw quads twice in 20 mins and people spike 2 outers 3 times on the river in an hour...me no care.
Comments
I 'm not sure why BB did not can the turn, unless I'm recalling incorrectly.
I would typically buy-in for $1000 at 10 20, I just like having alot of chips infront of me when new players sit at the table.
Another thing that I failed to point out -- I would say 70% of the players at 20 40 were buying-in for only 10-15BB.
Another glaring problem that I failed to note:
I'm in a 10 20 hand with black KK in LP, 3 of us after the flop of 25J with 2 spades.
Prefllop KK in LP, 2 limpers infron and I raise, button and BB call...5 handed.
Flop action check/check, MP bets, I raise, button calls, fold/fold, MP reraises and I cap...button (clueless player hitting everything) is about to muck, says that he guesses that he's beat and shows his cards to his friend sitting between us who tells him that he may as well pay to see one more card, so he calls. MP calls.
Turn 25J8 with 3 spades. MP bets, I call, button raises (great, now he hit his set), MP calls and I call as I'm at least holding the K spades and I have no read on MP having recenty sat.
NOW...both players start talking back and forth in Italian, apparently telling each other their hands from what I can tell from the English conversation between the button and the friend in between us after the hand. Dealer does nothing about this.
River 25J85 with 4 spades, Bet, call and call. I only call as I'm fairly certain that the 2 Italian friends aren't going to raise one another from previous soft play that I had noted at the table. MP 22, button 88...full house and full house.
I don't bother making a scene about this as it didn't cost me any mone and from what I had noted, the dealer and floor are clearly to some extent inept so I don't feel like participating in an exercise in futility...and I plan on moving tables fairly soon anyhow.
I "think" he's advocating flat calling to try to get in an extra bet on the turn. In theory, you're not betting to get rid of the draws on the flop, only to get value from them. If you think you can get more bets in by flat calling and raising the turn it may make more sense to raise then. Sometimes you'll wait for the turn to raise a strong hand since your equity will improve from flop to turn once your opponents only have one card as opposed to 2 to catch their draw. However in this spot, this isn't that applicable, since your equity won't change as much with top set (where you have MASSIVE equity because of your redraws). In this spot I think it probably comes down to your read of the post flop players. If you know they'll check to you on the turn if you cap the flop (and not checkraise) but will bet out if you call, it may make sense to just call. I think "in general" playing the set faster makes you more money (because of your redraws), especially if your opponents are aggressive.
The BB is a smart TAG player from what I've seen over the past few hours.
The SB literally just sat down.
If I 3 bet the flop I feel that I will, in general, lose money on the following streets. I could not put sb on a set until he capped the flop, so I didn't know that it would come back capped to me on the flop, but lucky me. In this situation I would very much consider a fold on the turn with AA if any significant action is brought to me on the turn with both opponents showing huge strength on the flop -- ie if I were to 3 bet the flop. I would also fold to significant action on the turn if I'm holding an average draw and I have to call 2 bets cold on the turn...so I feel disguising a bit on the flop pays dividends in this situation.
Another reason is that KQ2 with a 4 flush out there is certainly a happy flop for me, but not a great/safe flop as lots of big cards can be drawing on me. I would be happy making all draws pay the max on the turn when the bets are doubled. I likely have a better chance of 3 betting the turn having not shown any aggression on the flop and having position on the other 2 players. If I 3bet the flop then I think I would have less action infront of me on the turn. If I were AA I certainly try to get to the river as cheaply as possible, and QQ may even slow down a bit as well with more information on my hand.
As it stood, if I were the sb I would have dumped anyhow with AA after betting the turn and having it raised and reraised behind, but praise be those that cannot let go of AA. Likely also fortunate that he just sat down and likely had no read on either the sb or myself.
Overall, it was a fortunate situation to be in. I'm not certain if the BB (QQQ) slowed down on the river because of the backdoor flush hitting or if he figured out that I had top set. Having that size of pot I was surprised that it was checked to me on the river.
I think that I'd get less or the same, and possibly lose AA...why do you think that I'd get more action from QQ if I showed more strength on the flop?