A Pot Limit Omaha High Hand
I'm just learning the ropes in this game, trying to grow beyond being a "nut peddler" (though it is fairly easy to win at a reasonable rate doing that. Once in a while a hand just makes me chuckle and this was one of them. Whoever is an Omaha expert feel free to comment on it, but the main question I wonder is (and I am pretty sure I know the answer)
- Is it utter suicide to charge into an all in , especially multiway, with KKxx hands?
Anyways the hand
Game #2655305164: Omaha PL ($0.15/$0.25) - 2006/06/10 - 21:05:45 (ET)
Table "Soloist" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 1: gwanuwill ($30.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Karrion ($49.05 in chips)
Seat 3: Stabbies ($26.30 in chips)
Seat 4: HOLDMDLR ($23.05 in chips)
Seat 5: _sthoms_ ($2.51 in chips)
Seat 6: greyhound ($22.75 in chips)
Seat 7: 24rufin ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Copela001 ($9.40 in chips)
Seat 9: Waymond ($46.90 in chips)
Seat 10: slaffsy ($7 in chips)
greyhound: posts small blind $0.15
24rufin: posts big blind $0.25
slaffsy: posts big blind $0.25
HOLE CARDS
dealt to Stabbies [2h 3c Qh 4d]
Copela001: raises to $1.15
Waymond: folds
slaffsy: calls $0.90
gwanuwill: calls $1.15
Karrion: folds
Stabbies: folds
HOLDMDLR: calls $1.15
_sthoms_: calls $1.15
greyhound: calls $1
24rufin: raises to $9.20
Copela001: calls $8.05
slaffsy: folds
gwanuwill: calls $8.05
HOLDMDLR: folds
_sthoms_: is all-in $1.36
greyhound: calls $8.05
FLOP
[4h 4c 7s]
greyhound: checks
24rufin: bets $0.55 and is all-in
Copela001: is all-in $0.20
gwanuwill: folds (yes he folded to a 55 cent bet into a $40+ pot)
greyhound: calls $0.55
TURN
[4h 4c 7s][6c]
RIVER
[4h 4c 7s 6c][5s]
SHOW DOWN
24rufin: shows [Ah Ad Js As] (Two Pairs, Aces and Fours, Seven high)
Copela001: shows [Kc Jd Kd 3h] (Two Pairs, Kings and Fours, Seven high)
_sthoms_: shows [6s 9d Kh Qc] (Two Pairs, Sixes and Fours, King high)
greyhound: shows [Ts 5d 5h Td] (A Full House, Fives full of Fours)
greyhound collects $0.70 from Side pot #2
greyhound collects $25.96 from Side pot #1
greyhound collects $14.15 from Main pot
Hell, I am not an odds expert but my gut feeling is that my bad hand of Q234 would probably play better against a multi way then the KKxx hand or the 2 pairs of 10 and 5 hand :P No idea what to say about the KQ96 hand, I guess it being rainbow appealed to that player.
So to Omaha players, aside from AAxx, what hands are worth charging into all ins preflop heads up or especially multiway where a lot of "need to gamble" people toss in their chips with as we can see just about anything.
Thanks.
- Is it utter suicide to charge into an all in , especially multiway, with KKxx hands?
Anyways the hand
Game #2655305164: Omaha PL ($0.15/$0.25) - 2006/06/10 - 21:05:45 (ET)
Table "Soloist" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 1: gwanuwill ($30.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Karrion ($49.05 in chips)
Seat 3: Stabbies ($26.30 in chips)
Seat 4: HOLDMDLR ($23.05 in chips)
Seat 5: _sthoms_ ($2.51 in chips)
Seat 6: greyhound ($22.75 in chips)
Seat 7: 24rufin ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Copela001 ($9.40 in chips)
Seat 9: Waymond ($46.90 in chips)
Seat 10: slaffsy ($7 in chips)
greyhound: posts small blind $0.15
24rufin: posts big blind $0.25
slaffsy: posts big blind $0.25
HOLE CARDS
dealt to Stabbies [2h 3c Qh 4d]
Copela001: raises to $1.15
Waymond: folds
slaffsy: calls $0.90
gwanuwill: calls $1.15
Karrion: folds
Stabbies: folds
HOLDMDLR: calls $1.15
_sthoms_: calls $1.15
greyhound: calls $1
24rufin: raises to $9.20
Copela001: calls $8.05
slaffsy: folds
gwanuwill: calls $8.05
HOLDMDLR: folds
_sthoms_: is all-in $1.36
greyhound: calls $8.05
FLOP
[4h 4c 7s]
greyhound: checks
24rufin: bets $0.55 and is all-in
Copela001: is all-in $0.20
gwanuwill: folds (yes he folded to a 55 cent bet into a $40+ pot)
greyhound: calls $0.55
TURN
[4h 4c 7s][6c]
RIVER
[4h 4c 7s 6c][5s]
SHOW DOWN
24rufin: shows [Ah Ad Js As] (Two Pairs, Aces and Fours, Seven high)
Copela001: shows [Kc Jd Kd 3h] (Two Pairs, Kings and Fours, Seven high)
_sthoms_: shows [6s 9d Kh Qc] (Two Pairs, Sixes and Fours, King high)
greyhound: shows [Ts 5d 5h Td] (A Full House, Fives full of Fours)
greyhound collects $0.70 from Side pot #2
greyhound collects $25.96 from Side pot #1
greyhound collects $14.15 from Main pot
Hell, I am not an odds expert but my gut feeling is that my bad hand of Q234 would probably play better against a multi way then the KKxx hand or the 2 pairs of 10 and 5 hand :P No idea what to say about the KQ96 hand, I guess it being rainbow appealed to that player.
So to Omaha players, aside from AAxx, what hands are worth charging into all ins preflop heads up or especially multiway where a lot of "need to gamble" people toss in their chips with as we can see just about anything.
Thanks.
Comments
Other hands that play well all in are high wrap hands -- hands with all 4 unpaired broadway or close-to broadway cards at least single-suited. If double-suited, you can lower your card calues a bit and even play a mid-card wrap, say 89TJ if you are fairly confident that your opponent has AAxx or KKxx.
You can use cardplayers OMaha calculator and plug in some hands and see where you are at.
The reason Omaha is usually played PL and not NL is that it is a drawing game and not a preflop game. The more skill in the game, the deeper the stacks thus taking away this push preflop game.
Funny... that's exactly WHY I play Omaha...
Pre-flop all in, you're never TOO far behind, but the best advice is to look for hands where everything works together, giving you a lot of escape valves.... I wouldn't have called with your hand here though... a decent hand to call with would have at least two pairs of suited connectors such as
4c-5c-10h-Jh (though again, I'm not calling too many all-ins)
a high pocket pair with suited cards that flow are also great
Kh-Kc-7h-8c is a hand I would call a decent amount with, but you're hoping to hit huge.
Omaha is a post-flop game, where the good players do well because of their pre-flop selections.
Mark
Agreed, but as you said, the push in this situation is good, since the player does have enough to get allin (ie short stack) and should be able to push out other hands (assuming they aren't idiots) and hence get bunch of dead money in the pot when he's likely favoured by any single hand that calls.
And obviously the hands that did call were uber donks...