"protect your hand" in low limit HE?
I'm not the greatest limit player well, a pretty bad limit player I suck at limit. My bankroll doesnt' really permit me to play no limit, and I don't like the idea of playing NL ring games, huge potential for huge loss quickly, I'm not ready for that..
I decided though, to try out some low limit games (.25/.5, .5/1) and have had some, but not much success... I'm down about 30 bucks in 2 weeks or so. Anyway, as I hate not being good at something, I picked up Small Stakes HOld 'em and have been trying to really study up on it and pay attention as if it was one of my university courses (though I'm not waiting until the last minute to read the entire book
) I've seen it say in a few places now (i'm almost half way through it) to protect your hand. for example, haveing a 'strong' made hand on the flop the book says "YOu will win first- or second-most often. You should rarely fold, even in a small pot, but you should also try to protect your hand."
now, the question is, how on earth does one protect his hand playing limit like this? I am not seeing this work, people are rarely folding for a quarter or 50 cents. I mean, I know i shoudl take advantage of the loose play, but I'm playing fairly loosely these days as well (no patnience for playing tight, I'm for now trying to just turn it from a hobby that I don't mind losing some money on, to one that can cost me nothing, while I move up in limits eventually)
anyway, back to the question, is there somethign I don't understand about protecting a hand in limit, or at micro limits, is it just pointless to try?
thanks
I decided though, to try out some low limit games (.25/.5, .5/1) and have had some, but not much success... I'm down about 30 bucks in 2 weeks or so. Anyway, as I hate not being good at something, I picked up Small Stakes HOld 'em and have been trying to really study up on it and pay attention as if it was one of my university courses (though I'm not waiting until the last minute to read the entire book
) I've seen it say in a few places now (i'm almost half way through it) to protect your hand. for example, haveing a 'strong' made hand on the flop the book says "YOu will win first- or second-most often. You should rarely fold, even in a small pot, but you should also try to protect your hand."now, the question is, how on earth does one protect his hand playing limit like this? I am not seeing this work, people are rarely folding for a quarter or 50 cents. I mean, I know i shoudl take advantage of the loose play, but I'm playing fairly loosely these days as well (no patnience for playing tight, I'm for now trying to just turn it from a hobby that I don't mind losing some money on, to one that can cost me nothing, while I move up in limits eventually)
anyway, back to the question, is there somethign I don't understand about protecting a hand in limit, or at micro limits, is it just pointless to try?
thanks
Comments
dont bluff.
gl.
I have found in some RARE cases that if you play tight aggressive poker for a long time even at a micro-limit table, some people will notice and fold to your raises, most won't but some will.
I have learned to fold KK in microlimit when the river shows an Ace and there is at least two people who have already called bets on that street.
And as harth said, don't bluff...
Finish reading SSHE immediately before you play again. Then read it once more. Contained within that book IS the secret to DESTROYING loose limit games. It will fundamentally alter the way you think about poker.
Anything I can tell you on this message board the book can tell you 10x better. What I can tell you is this : These games are beatable for a great (relative) win rate. You can probably win 2 x the big bet per one hundred hands if you play great, and 3 x the big bet if you play expertly. You can probably win 1x the big bet per one hundred if you play decent. There are tons of opportunities to protect your hand at these loose limits. Many players have a false concept about the micro limit games on the net; for the most part your average 2/5 at Brantford or 3/6 at Windsor plays LOOSER than the .25/.50 games at Stars. The average 10/20 game at Brantford is comparable to the 2/4 or 3/6 games on Party Poker, in fact it is absolutely easier to beat the 10/20 at Brantford than it is to beat the 2/4 or 3/6 games on Party. And the 2/4 and 3/6 games on Party are quite loose.
But enough about this... get back to re-reading SSHE. IT IS AMAZING.
It's not about protecting your hand. It's understanding why you're betting or raising. A tactful raise may knock out opponents who don't have proper odds to call which increases your equity. If they do call (without odds) it makes you money as well. Similarly it's not about thinking about your hand in an absolute sense (ie I have top pair, I have to protect it), but rather in terms of what is your expected equity is in the pot (ie. can I pump this nut flush draw with a gutshot and 2 overs with 4 opponents for value). Once you begin to think about things like how the pot size affects your decisions and what your expected equity is, you'll begin to destroy loose games.
However, as previously mentioned. a LL B&M game (2-5 or 5-10 at Brantford for example) is going to be loads looser than .25-.50 online.
It is also important to understand that in big pots your opponents 'chasing behaviour' which is a losing play in small or short handed pots is often correct. There are many times where your opponents will be getting the 10:1 to hit a gutshot on the turn and it would be a BAD move to fold. It is also important to exploit the odds the pot is offering your opponents so that no matter what they do it works to your advantage. For example, if the pot is fifteen small bets on the flop and the player infront of you bets with a likely top pair, it is often correct to wait until the turn to raise with AA. If you raise now your opponents will be getting 9:1 + however much more is offered by other callers, which is clearly enough to chase a gutshot or a 2 pair / trips draw. If you wait until the turn, not only will they be faced with worse odds, loose limit players instinctively fear the turn raise as two pair + and will fold 5 out hands even when they are getting the proper odds to chase.
If you're up against opponents who will generally call you anyway, charging them double bets with a check-raise (for example), which could be considered protecting a hand against opponents who are capable of folding draws when they are not offered the correct odds, will instead get a lot of money into the pot when you believe you have the best hand. The latter, of course, is the key to beating LLHE.
What I find most glaring from the OP is the following:
IMO, understanding the importance of strict starting hand requirements in LLHE is more valuable than examining an aspect of the game as subtle and obscure as "protecting your hand vs. maximizing value".
And, don't forget,
:cool:
ScottyZ
People are always going to try and draw against you in Limit. It is a game about draws. The idea is to understand when to play your hands and when to raise. If you are playing really loose, then you are going to be burned a lot. Yes, you'll make some hands but over the long haul if you keep playing a loose game (due to impatience) then you'll lose long term. Playing loose can be profitable but you need the skill and the ability to read other players well to succeed.