Now getting the hand of it!
I have been playing on-line poker off and on now for over 6 months I have been playing on sites such as tiger, ultimate and party poker. Last sunday was the first time that i actually quit while I was ahead. I was up 60 dollars US, just after 2 hours of on-line play at Party poker. after playing in the 50 cent/ 1 dollar and 1 and 2 dollar blind games.
I have been reading every poker magazine that I can get my hands on and I have read Doyle's super system and mike caro's book of tells. plus I have 2 more books on the way from amazon that should be here tomorrow. I hope to take my game play to the next level as I would love to make a living at playing poker on-line, but I don't believe I am at that point just yet, I do fairly well playing home games and find myself getting to the last 3 remaining players left, time and time again. but 3rd place never seems to pay when i am third. anyone have and pointers for me as to help me achieve my goal as an on-line poker player
Poker Pimp
I have been reading every poker magazine that I can get my hands on and I have read Doyle's super system and mike caro's book of tells. plus I have 2 more books on the way from amazon that should be here tomorrow. I hope to take my game play to the next level as I would love to make a living at playing poker on-line, but I don't believe I am at that point just yet, I do fairly well playing home games and find myself getting to the last 3 remaining players left, time and time again. but 3rd place never seems to pay when i am third. anyone have and pointers for me as to help me achieve my goal as an on-line poker player
Poker Pimp
Comments
/g2
Honestly, it amazes me how many people play online poker for less than a year, and then want to be able to make a living at it. I get emails at PNL about that too... "how long do I have to play online poker for before I can go pro?". Ugh.
Most people who play online poker lose. That being said, most of those people don't post here, because they're probably not interested in thinking about/improving their game. So, the information on this site is skewed, somewhat. That's not a bad thing... just a fact.
The worst thing that can happen to a poker player is early success. Very few people pick up the game in an instant, and are good enough to be long-term winning players. Most of the time, players who win early in their "careers" are making mistakes and getting lucky. Then they lose back what they've won, and then some, when their luck runs out--at the same or usually higher limits. And then they play even higher to try to win back what they've lost back. And they go deeper and deeper into debt. That is how online poker goes for most people, until they get sick of losing, and give up. Some of them actually read a few books and ask some of the right questions, and they can rebuild, and eventually profit. And some people never get better, but they never give up, and that is... well... sad. But if we didn't take their money, somebody else would, so don't let it keep you up at night.
Online poker is tough. Especially at mid- and high-limits... nobody is giving anything away. Well, USUALLY nobody is giving their money away. Most of the time, every last bet going in and out of a player's stack COUNTS to them, and they protect it like dobermans. Or something. You get the idea... it's not easy. It never is. Even when you're cleaning up.
OK, that's the end of that rant. For now. On to your post:
That is not even close to being long enough to determine whether you are or are not a long-term winning player.
The whole idea of "quitting while you're ahead" is flawed. Ahead, behind, it doesn't matter. It's not important, at all. What does matter is how soft or hard the table is, how well you're playing, etc. etc. etc. A million things matter, but whether or not you are winning during any particular session has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you should leave. If you tilt when you're losing, by all means, leave. But assuming you are playing your "A" game, and the table is beatable... stick around.
It has been said that poker is "one long game". That is why. If you are consistently making +EV decisions, you will win in the long run. You may lose for a night, a week, a month, hell... an entire YEAR. (Although that hasn't happened to me, yet, thank God, and knock on wood, and all of that.) Eventually, you will profit from the game of poker. And if you're lucky, it will be in your lifetime. Not you, specifically... "one's" lifetime, I mean.
That's a good thing. Be careful about the magazines though... some of the advice can be sketchy. Books are more reliable, as long as you are reading them, understanding them, processing them, re-reading them. It's FAR too easy to skim over a passage in a book that you don't understand, or don't find interesting. If you do this, you are defeating the purpose of buying the book in the first place.
Why do you want to do that? There is no social interaction... just staring at a computer screen all day long. And, personally speaking, I wouldn't find it very rewarding after a while. There are more exciting ways to make money than to watch cards on a screen all day. And I LOVE online poker. I hope it doesn't get mad at me for saying that stuff.
We're getting off-track, though. The point is that you would love to make a living playing online poker, so there it is, right or wrong.
I think g2's advice is solid. Maybe a bit blunt, but accurate. The first thing you need to do, IMO, is stop romanticizing the idea of playing online poker for a living. Sounds great, until you hit a 3 month long losing streak, where it doesn't seem like you can do anything right, and you can't book a win, and you're behind on your rent. If you can look at the situation objectively, that's a start.Â
You have to be insanely smart with your bankroll. Or, have a huge bankroll to start with. Or both. Preferably both. Since I don't play for a living, I'm not sure what limits/games you would have to play to expect to make a decent living, averaging 40 to 50 hours/week (I assume). Other posters here who play professionally might be able to help you out with that stuff.
All I can say is, it wouldn't be as exciting, and probably not nearly as easy, as you think it would be. And, you don't have any long-term winning numbers behind you when it comes to online poker in the first place. I don't think you're anywhere near ready to even be thinking about being a professional online poker player. You're not playing big enough games, and based on the second sentence of your post, you probably shouldn't be.
Work on your game. Work on your game. Work on your game. When that is as good as it can possibly be, and you've moved up a limit or five, then, and only then, can you seriously start to consider playing for a living. And when you're considering it, picture yourself playing for three days, 14 hours/day, and barely breaking even. Ugh.Â
/g2
And "working" on your game doesn't just mean playing (although that's part of it). It means record keeping. Â Knowing when you win/lose and how much. Â Learning where your leaks are and why said plays are leaks. Â Not just reading books and magazine articles but understanding the material and then applying it in the right situations to your game. Â And, like AA said, poker can be boring at times, many of the players that have played countless hands online begin to realize that (and this is coming from probably most of the proclaimed poker junkies here). Â
Nice post AA. Â I nominate this is the default thread to refer new players that MENTION the words "go pro".
http://www.canadianpoker.com
So if you are serious about turning pro check it out.
Also one of the most important things I think is tracking your results. I found that stress filled month of work affected my game. (Of course I didn't realize that when I was getting beat at the poker table until the month was over I was looking over my results)
Track your results will actually give you some idea of how well or poorly you are truly playing. Everyone remember the big win or loss but no one remember the little ones in between and those are the ones that make or break your bankroll. Get enough small losses and next thing you notice is that you are broke.
Recently, a poker friend of mine who lives in Hungary told me he was thinking of going pro and sought advice. I pointed out many of the negatives that have been discussed previously. He thanked me for my comments and pointed out that he is an engineer and his current salary is about $350 PER MONTH. In my opinion, this changes things quite a bit. If you only had to make this amount per month, you could play lower limits against worse opponents and one decent sized cash could match your yearly salary.
Poker Pimp, I only mention this as a factor to be considered. If you are a single guy and only have yourself to worry about, you may be more willing to take the risk. However, you must stop and think, How much do I have to earn per month on average to pay my bills and can I realistically do this. You should track your results, to the penny, for at least few months and see where your at before you make any decision.
My current plan is as follows. Continue playing as a hobby.  Reinvest online winnings (if any) into trying to qualify for major buy in tournaments. If I am able to hit it big (i.e. over $400,000K), then I would consider quitting my job. I will not rely on poker for more than a hobby until I am a proven winner. Again, this is tailored for my personal goal. I believe everyone's goal could be different.
Troy
Poker is my main source of income, but thats because I'm a student. I gave up summer jobs because poker is more profitable for me (most of the time).However, I'm realistic; I have no illusions of turning it into a career. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to play poker full time for the rest of my life, but I do realize I am nowhere near that level (even though I am a profitable player). I'm not skilled, mentally disiciplined, or confident enough...yet
My suggestion is to keep playing and never stop learning. A good way to do this, which I did about 2 years ago, is realize "I know absolutly nothing about this game" and then go from there. Everyone and their mother thinks they are amazing players, but the truth of it is great poker players are a very small minority in the world of poker.
Best of luck.
cheers
The Poker Pimp
Good for you... maybe (ONE DAY) you might actually pull this off.
This is DEAD on. Anyone can pick out the other donks. It's when you start to realize YOU are the donk that you're actually learning something/improving... And trust me, this self-revelation tends to keep happening in new and unexpected ways (at least that's the case with me).
My goal and dreams was to be on TV at the WSOP, Ivey, Daniel, and the all the legends of poker at my table. I let this dream take over my life. My world was all about poker. From my everyday experiences right down to the lingo. I let this dream blind sight me from the reality of life. It is a game of luck, and somewhat skill. I started off playing home games, saw myself getting to the final table on many occasions. With my largest buy-in at $40 dollars. Then came multitable tourney's small buy-in but larger reward. I played 4 of those no where near the money, nor final 30 players. With my largest buy in being $80. Then came the casino branford. Started off as a 2-5 player, then moved way up to the 5-10 eventually hitting the 10-20 each time I moved up, t'was not because I was making a profit. I was chasing my loses back. $17,000 Dollars later (dating back 2 years ago to the present time) I found myself admiting to a problem. Having gone to a univeristy city, all my friends were poker players. Everyday poker was around me, friends loaning me money so we could all go to brantford for the night, got introduced to online poker for the first time...and then it happened.
My addiction wasn't noticable to me at first, my friends, girlfriends, and family finally figured something was wrong. Grades were dropping, Maxing out my Credit Cards, Sleeping in all day, losing sight of reality, losing friends, feeling depressed. All because of a dream to become the next poker legend.
I found Online poker harder then the Casino, it's hard to laydown AA, AK, or KK because when you are dealt those hands, you figure "oh, finally i'm gonna win this hand lets see how much I can squeeze out of thise other players" but then you run into a flop which makes chasers hit there flush or at best a straight.
I then thought of playing No Limit because it would get rid of the chasing, bad idea...you need at least 2 pair or a set to call the river.
Long story short, I became addicted to gambling. I was enrolled in Gambler's Annoymous by my friends who were concerned with me. To this day, I regret even picking up cards and saying the words "ALL IN"...because technically it foreshadowed my life.
Now, I watch from the sidelines and repaying my debts...just 3,000 more and i'm out of the red.
Just wanted to share this with anyone taking up the game who all had or have the same dream about going Pro.
djalikool's post is equally as good. It takes alot of guts to admit to a problem, and even more to actually do something about it. Congratulations djalikool, and I wish you all the best in getting back on your feet.
Get a copy of SSHE.
Get poker tracker.
Get game time +.
Re-read SSHE every day.
Play a ton of hands.
Good luck!
cheers
The Poker Pimp AKA Donkey Pimp 1 at Partypoker