PS 500FPP Tourney

beanie42beanie42
in Online Poker
Looking for comments on how I played this hand, but more specifically, what you would do on the flop.  Not sure whether I was too weak or too aggressive here.

Blinds 750-1500(75).  I'm average in the tourney, and 2nd in chips at table with 30K.

UTG, I'm dealt :ah :ac .  I raise to 4500.  Big stack calls from button (he has $140k).

Flop is :10d :6c :8h .  No flush possible, but an ugly straight is, and a bunch of draws are out there.  Pot is $12K, so I bet 12K, leaving me with just over 13K left.  The button bets exactly my stack (not sure if this is relevant compared to an all-in or $15K bet, but just for reference).

Your play?

Comments

  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    I don't think you needed to bet that much on the flop.

    Given your situation I don't think I could fold. You haven't told us much about the big stack's image. There are lots of hands you are ahead of and you have great suckout potential anyway.
  • 88Fingers88Fingers
    I think you played it fine... and I think given the pot size the only non-weak option you have is to call and hope he doesn't hit his draw.  From the play it smells (to me anyway) of a draw.

    It also depends how close you are to the 'money' - from what I remember seeing the payouts are WSoP seats, correct?
  • beanie42beanie42
    pkrfce9 wrote:
    I don't think you needed to bet that much on the flop.
    What would you recommend?  If he's on a draw (say J9), than anything less than a pot bet would be a correct call, right?
    pkrfce9 wrote:
    You haven't told us much about the big stack's image.
    No read.  I'd busted 2 people in the last lap, and he was moved here 2 hands ago.  This was the most frustrating part - only 1 player who can bust me, he's the one who calls, and I have no read.
    88Fingers wrote:
    It also depends how close you are to the 'money' - from what I remember seeing the payouts are WSoP seats, correct?
    Money started at 785, and there's 400 left (top 9 get seats, rest get cash prizes).
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Half pot is enough to give most draws a poor price. I wouldn't expect someone to play J9 here but with the big stack, who knows?

    As it is, you have committed yourself with the bet. Maybe you wanted to do that anyway? If the big stack pushed you in with a worse hand I'd have to think he wasn't paying very good attention.
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    You really need to beat him into the pot here. I'm sorry he had a set this time.
  • beanie42beanie42
    pkrfce9 wrote:
    Half pot is enough to give most draws a poor price.
    1/2 pot would be 6,000, so he'd have to call 6K to win 18K - 3 to 1.  An OESD is 2 to 1, so more than enough, and it's almost enough for a gutshot to take a chance (especially if they have a pair to go with it, say 9T or 78.  A smaller bet wouldn't have committed me, but it would invite him to continue and take me out (I think).
    pkrfce9 wrote:
    As it is, you have committed yourself with the bet. Maybe you wanted to do that anyway?
    Sort of - with that flop, I couldn't see myself folding, so I was pretty much committed to the hand.
    pkrfce9 wrote:
    If the big stack pushed you in with a worse hand I'd have to think he wasn't paying very good attention.
    I'm not sure his "attention" can be at issue here - he can't have any better read than I do after 2 hands.
    SirWatts wrote:
    You really need to beat him into the pot here.
    Do you mean push the flop, or pre-flop?
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    I mean after he pushes over your raise. You played the hand right preflop and onflop, when he pushes it's an instacall.
  • beanie42beanie42
    SirWatts wrote:
    I mean after he pushes over your raise. You played the hand right preflop and onflop, when he pushes it's an instacall.
    Ok, thanks. I thought I played it right, but it was suggested to me that when he came over the top on the flop, I should give him credit for at least a set and fold, thus staying alive. My thinking was that with no read, it's possible he has me beat, but I beat the majority of hands that a "normal" player could be playing. Also, while I considered folding a bit weak, being left with 8BB and going into the BB wasn't a comforting thought either.

    As it turned out, he had 97o, and flopped the nuts. An A on the turn got me calling for a paired river, but nothing came.

    Seeing his hand makes it less likely I would play it differently even if I had a read. If his playing style is such that he would call a raise with that hand when it's obvious the hand is going to be played HU, and the implied odds are so low given my stack, he's loose enough that I wouldn't give him credit for anything even with a read. Makes me feel a bit better, but I'm still out...
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    ah, the joys of big stack buffonery...
  • beanie42beanie42
    pkrfce9 wrote:
    ah, the joys of big stack buffonery...

    Actually, there was a pretty funny hand early in the tournament. Blinds 15/30, UTG is the big stack and limps, SB calls, and I check with :3s :5s. Flop comes down :js :ad :ts and is checked around. Board pairs on the turn with a :jc and again it is checked around. River is a :ks and SB bets 90. My flush is pretty weak but I decide to call anyway, but then the UTG re-raises to 240. When the SB calls I fold, since somebody has to have me beat. Nope - the SB shows :8c :qd and the UTG shows :4h :qh. Not a spade between them and they split with the straight. The funny part is the post flop comments.

    me: lol
    nh
    nh
    gh
    me: if you think so
    me: n bet though, with that hand
    UTG: i didnt bet till river
    UTG: calld 30 cause i can

    Apparently he thought it was the pre-flop call that I thought was bad, rather than the re-raise on the river without having the obvious flush when a fh was possible. I knew immediately I was going to love this table :)
  • MonteroyMonteroy
    I wish I had saved it but the hand that made me shake my head the most was between two big chippers with around 20-25 k each with blinds of 100/200.

    First guy raises to 600
    Second guy reraises preflop to 2400
    Rest fold and first guy calls

    Flop is K 10 6 rainbow

    First guy bets 200 (into the pot of 5000ish)
    Second guy raises to 4800
    First guy calls

    Turn 8

    First guy bets 200 (into the pot of 15,000 ish)
    Second guy raises all in about 18,000 more
    First guy calls

    Second guy had AK
    First guy had 33

    After all that the 3 hits on the river, first guy wins a 45k pot or so

    Guess he played it right after all...
  • JohnnieHJohnnieH
    So, who qualified for the seats? Anybody we know?
  • Big EBig E
    beanie42 wrote:
    SirWatts wrote:
    I mean after he pushes over your raise. You played the hand right preflop and onflop, when he pushes it's an instacall.
    Ok, thanks.  I thought I played it right, but it was suggested to me that when he came over the top on the flop, I should give him credit for at least a set and fold, thus staying alive.  My thinking was that with no read, it's possible he has me beat, but I beat the majority of hands that a "normal" player could be playing.  Also, while I considered folding a bit weak, being left with 8BB and going into the BB wasn't a comforting thought either.

    I couldn't get away from this Trevor, I agree that folding is weak here, sure you're behind a set, two pair or the str8 but like you said you're ahead of the majority of hands a 'normal' player could be playing....and the big stack trying to push you off the pot is a very definite possibility. I don't think you go all-in pre-flop, I think you want some action with this hand, it's unfortunate how it turned out but I think I would have played it the same way and I think it's an easy call. That said..do you fold this if you're on the bubble, I think I might? I'm surprised at his call with 97o...but then I'm a weak/tight  :fish:

    :D
  • beanie42beanie42
    Big E wrote:
    That said..do you fold this if you're on the bubble, I think I might?
    I don't think a "normal" bubble (for the money) would matter to me, since I usually try to give myself a chance at first. If it were the seat bubble (say a dozen left for the 9 seats), than I might fold it depending on relative chip stacks.
    Big E wrote:
    I'm surprised at his call with 97o...but then I'm a weak/tight :fish:
    I'm a bit surprised too, but I think this highlites the power of having a big chip stack. You can play a few more questionable hands to try and bust someone, since you have very little risk for the first couple attempts.
  • TilterTilter
    Call, big stacks range is pretty big and you completely overbet the pot representing pot commitment and you have almost no read because your bet looks like AK AQ hoping to just make a gross contin bet.

    Heres my bust out hand:
    PokerStars Game #5078670933: Tournament #24557510, 500FPP Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/05/28 - 13:38:00 (ET)
    Table '24557510 714' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: nick112 (1145 in chips)
    Seat 2: Panoramix (1300 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 3: golden31 (1350 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 4: TEEJER25 (3015 in chips)
    Seat 5: RiskeyBiz19 (1010 in chips)
    Seat 6: jayaverill (2800 in chips)
    Seat 7: Tilter (1320 in chips)
    Seat 8: lee69715 (1275 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 9: Trailers (4165 in chips)
    Panoramix: posts small blind 25
    golden31: posts big blind 50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Tilter [9c 9s]
    TEEJER25: folds
    RiskeyBiz19: folds
    jayaverill: folds
    Tilter: raises 150 to 200
    lee69715: folds
    Trailers: calls 200
    nick112: folds
    Panoramix: folds
    golden31: folds
    *** FLOP *** [5h 2c 9d]
    Tilter: bets 100
    Trailers: raises 200 to 300
    Tilter: calls 200
    *** TURN *** [5h 2c 9d] [4d]
    Tilter: checks
    Trailers: bets 900
    Tilter: calls 820 and is all-in
    *** RIVER *** [5h 2c 9d 4d] [Qd]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Tilter: shows [9c 9s] (three of a kind, Nines)
    Trailers: shows [Kd Ad] (a flush, Ace high)
    Tilter said, "nh"
    Trailers collected 2715 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 2715 | Rake 0
    Board [5h 2c 9d 4d Qd]
    Seat 1: nick112 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Panoramix (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: golden31 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 4: TEEJER25 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: RiskeyBiz19 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: jayaverill folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: Tilter showed [9c 9s] and lost with three of a kind, Nines
    Seat 8: lee69715 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: Trailers showed [Kd Ad] and won (2715) with a flush, Ace high
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