Sattelite Collusion

Here is what happened today.  I participated in a level 1 Sattelite on one of the Cryptologic skins ( Sun poker) 200 frequent player points, one entry to the 2 seat WSOP tournament at the end of the month for every 25 participants (ie: that tournament has a 5,000 player point buy in).  There were just over 150 players so 6 spots.

In the end I qualified though when there were 7 left (tables were 6 max, mine had 4 players other had 3), the other table openly colluded and soft played to avoid anyone being knocked out.  They even said what hands they had at times and how the other table would do the work for them. 

My table went at it full throttle, and even though I did get a spot I could not help but feel cheated and I did contact their customer support about it with screenshots of some of the blatant conversations.

The thing is I bet those guys thought they did nothing wrong, and this was hardly a huge buy in tournament. 


Pokerstars disables all chat and goes hand to hand when there are a few spots to go in a sattelite and this seems to have eliminated most of the problems (except for the enlightened small stacks who still stall even in hand for hand mode :P).

I am wondering what people think other rooms should do when this type of collusion takes place. It was disappointing to watch (I am sure it would have been even more so if I finished 7th)

Comments

  • I would no longer play there, not acceptable.

    BTW, how does one take screenshots?
  • Monteroy wrote:


    Pokerstars disables all chat and goes hand to hand when there are a few spots to go in a sattelite and this seems to have eliminated most of the problems (except for the enlightened small stacks who still stall even in hand for hand mode :P).

    I

    Nothing is worse than when people do it hand for hand. They don't realize that it is serving no purpose. Howerver, it is their right, so nothing is wrong with that.

    As for your situation, it sucks when it happens. Luckily you won a seat. I'm not sure what steps support should take in terms of punishment, but something is def. needed.
  • GTA Poker wrote:
    I would no longer play there, not acceptable.

    BTW, how does one take screenshots?

    ALT & Print Screen buttons together.

    Right click, Paste
  • The wonders of technology, thanks!
  • I'd probably take this as high as I could get it in the management...this is a pretty big flaw.
  • Just be careful to not get your teeth punched in.

    That sucks.
  • Heh, well here is the feedback I received so far.  It kind of amazed me in a way (not a particularly good way).



    Thank you for taking the time to report this incident.  The integrity of our site is of the utmost importance to us and therefore all such reports are fully investigated by one of our poker specialists.

    After conducting a full investigation I can conclude that the accounts (stairboy1 and berto ) are not involved in collusion.  We investigated every hand which the two accounts played together as well as the accounts game play together against other players.  When checking for collusion we look for the following:



    -          Squeezing.  Where the players involved continually raise the pot in order to scare the other players into folding.  This is normally done when neither player is holding a good hand.

    -          Pot building – When one player is holding a strong hand and the other not so strong.  Both players raise in order to trap another player in the middle and at the same time increase the size of the pot.

    -          Best hand play – This is where the players involved would only play the better of their two hands.


    There is no evidence of the accounts doing any of the above that would signify collusion.  In all of the hands played together both players betting action was justified and the players always played in their best individual interests.  There was no evidence that the players were playing as a ‘team’.


    This was the first time that the accounts had played together.  There are no links between the accounts and the accounts are not from the same location.


    We have many tools that are used for checking the gaming activity of our players to ensure that our site is a fair place for our customers to enjoy playing poker.  We also appreciate our players taking the time to report to us any incidents that they are not happy with which helps us to monitor our site and players.  If you find anything else that you are not completely satisfied with please feel free to report this to us and once again we will conduct a thorough investigation.


    Kind regards,

    Alexandros



    Always refreshing to see a semi large poker room incapable of figuring out a fairly simple situation.  Anyways I sent back this reply


    Umm, interesting reply though it completely ignored my entire point.

    I am not claiming they were playing hands in the standard ways you check as listed.

    What I am stating (as I did rather clearly in my original email) is that they openly spoke about their hands and openly spoke about playing soft on their table so that NOONE on that table would be eliminated at it when there were 7 players
    left for 6 spots.

    They were not squeezing, they were not pot building, they were not doing best hand play, and I would not expect they had any history playing together. However, what they were doing though was a very blatant form of collusion that can be found in sattelites if the software does nothing to prevent it.

    Pokerstars for instance goes to hand for hand and blocks all chat once it is close to the cut off point in sattelites.  This greatly eliminates the potential for complete table soft play that was clearly evident here.

    Please look at that table again and carefully read what they are saying and consider the context of the situation which was:

    - 6 players receive a spot to the next level

    - There were 7 players left in the tournament, only 3 of which were at their table.

    Please try to look beyond your definitions to see how one table of players in that situation can agree to all soft play so that the other table ends up knocking someone out.  This is what happened here.

    I thank you for your further input on this matter in advance.
  • The beauty of customer support is they have underpaid people who may know very little about the game scanning email for keywords then finding the best canned response that fits those words. This site could be different but it doesn't sound like it. I'm not sure what the equivalent is of asking to speak to a supervisor when you are calling phone support but that is what is needed here. "Ask for Lee"
  • Sounds like a standard pre-generated email response.....I had the same issue in a SNG when we were down to 4 players, two players were from the same location, one small stack 1 big stack, I was in the middle to the right of the small stack and left of the big....the small stack would push on the big stacks blinds consistently and the big would fold every time. The small stack had double the BB at one point, the big stack pretty much has to call that with any two cards, yet it looked to me like they were playing together and the big stack was dumping chips. I made a comment in chat and the one guy said they were buddies in the same dorm room, the other said they didn't know each other. I still don't know for sure, I managed a 3rd so I still got paid but when I sent a question to support with screen shots of the chat I got pretty much the exact same message, mind you this was on Poker Stars. Perhaps in my case and because so many people lie about what they have in the chat they have to disregard this and simply look at the cards, betting patterns, etc.....but in your case I think you definitely have a valid concern about their software but pat yourself on the back for playing a solid game and over coming the collusion!
  • Support responses always make me laugh. I got a response once that had nothing to do with my question. It was completely irrelevant. Copy and paste.

    Keep at them.
  • I got a response to someone elses question... :D

    And that is COLLUSION in a big way....

    Gotta luv ESL support.

    ESL = English as a Second Language.

    Hobbes
  • prepare asbestos suit now...
  • don't talk about asbestos suits. I spent 16 hours in something similar yesterday at work.

    anyway, I've found with every support question i have ever had for online poker, that the support staff were completely and entirely incapable of answering even the most simple question. especially Titan poker support. sure, they have online support, but I wne up waiting half an hour or more for them on occasion, to get copy / paste answers rom someone who obviously doesn't knwo what they're doing :/
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