New to NL, hand question

healeycopter

Hey,

I'm new to this forum, (first post!), I have a hand question. I was playing some micro-lim holdem and ran into the following situation:

I've played only a litttle bit of NL, and wonder what is the correct play on this hand:

***** Hand History for Game 4270851735 *****
$10 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, May 14, 20:46:48 ET 2006
Table Beginners Hyoglossus (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: LauRaYNe ( $4.45 )
Seat 3: Fold_alot ( $13.06 )
Seat 4: DarkGrayGW ( $13.65 )
Seat 9: superbluff55 ( $34.80 )
Seat 1: healeycopter ( $10.40 )
Seat 8: GrantAA ( $12.75 )
Seat 6: MsBoston689 ( $4.65 )
Seat 7: shizznizz111 ( $9.65 )
Seat 10: TD130 ( $4.90 )
Seat 5: will_r111 ( $10 )
TD130 posts small blind [$0.05].
healeycopter posts big blind [$0.10].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to healeycopter [ Ad Ac ]
superbluff55: 2 suted aces of spaeds in a row...
superbluff55: 3
healeycopter: huh
LauRaYNe folds.
Fold_alot folds.
DarkGrayGW calls [$0.10].
MsBoston689 calls [$0.10].
shizznizz111 folds.
GrantAA calls [$0.10].
superbluff55 folds.
TD130 folds.
healeycopter raises [$0.20].
superbluff55: now more showing now
healeycopter: yeah, is bad
DarkGrayGW calls [$0.20].
MsBoston689 calls [$0.20].
GrantAA calls [$0.20].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 9s, Td ]
healeycopter bets [$0.60].
DarkGrayGW folds.
MsBoston689 is all-In.
GrantAA folds.
healeycopter did not respond in time.
healeycopter folds.
MsBoston689 does not show cards.
MsBoston689 wins $6.10

I've though about it for a while, and I still think laying down the AA was ok. My thinking:

- I've found Micro-lim players often mean it when they go all-in.
- I might be facing a set (almost drawing dead) or an unlikely 78 holding (not so unlikely if SOOTED!!)
- I hate calling all-in--I'd rather push myself. And I only have one pair.

What say you more experienced players? Easy call? Good fold? Depends on a read of the all-in player?

Thanks for your insights...

compuease

3 limpers in front and you only raise 10 cents? lol. You made the mistake there, shoulda been about a buck.....

healeycopter

Was actually a 0.2 raise up to 0.3, but i agree a bigger raise is probably better. At that point I'm actually afraid I'll bet everyone out, but maybe that's not such a bad result.

QueenNine

As Compuease already said, I think you should have raised more preflop. In micro limit, I think if you raise it to $0.75 you will lose a few players, but not usually everyone.

MsBoston689 goes all in for another $4.00. That could mean anything. I think it screams severe overbet to protect her small PP. I would call her all in, and then wince when she flips over the 78 offsuit.

Maybe that's why I have a losing record with AA.

AcidJoe

My standard raise there would be anything from 50 cents to a buck depending on the table. The raise was too small. I probably call the all in there too. But hell that's just me.

Flint Bones

Ask yourself what the other person would push all in with? Are they going to over play their set? Not likely. Are they going to over play their top 2 pair? Again, not that likely. Odds are they had JJ or something similar, maybe even a straight draw. I would call here everytime. I think you are way ahead.

specialK

uhm raise way more PF and i probably call the all in... it's only $10

JimmyHo

Never try to let more than two callers in when you have pocket aces (high pair); your initial raise was definitely too small.  one caller is ideal.  I always hate when I get dealt AAs or KKs as anything can happen on the flop and you never know if you will run into trips, an open ended straight, etc. It is sometimes hard to get rid of at least two players online vs live tournament play as most online players will call anything (even all-in bets with garbage);  since you raised post flop, he/she probably has you beat.  You run into the same situation a lot when you have garbage in the big blind and you check and hit high pair or two pairs and think you are good but then get nailed.  Even with garage in the BB I sometimes make a 2xBB bet to reduce the number of callers.  

PokerJAH

morty

Flint Bones wrote:

Ask yourself what the other person would push all in with? Are they going to over play their set? Not likely.

I've done this exact thing (overbet top set) precisely because it looks like I'm protecting a weak pair.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Kind of depends on the situation. I don't see that kind of play in the micro limits much though.

Sean

DrTyore

specialK wrote:

uhm raise way more PF and i probably call the all in... it's only $10

I'm not a fan I HATE this type of thinking, simply because this ruins blind structures. If Bill Gates sits down at a 25-50 NL game, and someone goes all in, is he right to call an all-in with 7-2 because it's "just a thousand bucks"? No.

This is why .25/.50 games usually become 1/2 games. A standard raise with AA preflop can be anywhere from 3-5, which means .50 in this case. His raise of .20 is no good, I too would have gone to at least .50, or maybe .60/.70 given the number of callers.

Kyle, I think saying "Call because it's only $10" is not helpful, how does "Call because it's only 100 time the BB" sound? Not too good.

Flint Bones

DrTyore wrote:

specialK wrote:

uhm raise way more PF and i probably call the all in... it's only $10

I'm not a fan   I HATE this type of thinking, simply because this ruins blind structures.  If Bill Gates sits down at a 25-50 NL game, and someone goes all in, is he right to call an all-in with 7-2 because it's "just a thousand bucks"?  No.

I completely agree, Mark.

In this instance, do you call or fold?

DrTyore

I would fold here... the pot is 2.40 and the raise is 3.75...

I fold and curse her for her pocket 6s.... applaud if it's 78 though..

Hell, pretty much the same hand I posted earlier, but I was on the good end....

http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=9507.0

I call it "How to overplay a set and two pairs 101"

Mark

healeycopter

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

I agree I wouldn't call "just because it's $10"--I'm playing micro with the idea of learning good poker. I'm not sure if you can actually do that against the competition in Micro, but my mind-set is to take the game seriously.

In fact, I'd say I'm looking to play against players who would think exactly that way--I seem to take alot of money off maniacs.
It's gonna be scary for me when I go down to vegas in a couple weeks and play at roughly 10x these stakes! But I'm looking forward to it...

Big E

healeycopter wrote:

I agree I wouldn't call "just because it's $10"--I'm playing micro with the idea of learning good poker.  I'm not sure if you can actually do that against the competition in Micro, but my mind-set is to take the game seriously.

very good idea and stick to it, regardless of the level you have to play solid poker. I think if you're playing limits that you think are a joke or the money doesn't mean anything you can very easily take the bad habits you'll form up to the higher limits when you do move up......that said I think you need to play at a 'comfort' level. I play mostly $.50/1.00 limit or $25NL, some $1/2 limit because that is the level I am most comfortable, had success and I feel I play my best game (insert digs here, I said my best game...I did not say I play well..but I think I'm fairly solid!!!!!) but I will not play $2/4 or higher right now because I would be playing scared and therefore playing poorly...nor will I play lower levels because I donk off too many chips chasing this or that because it's so cheap. Find your comfort level and then focus on improving your game, Poker Tracker and Poker Office can be great tools to use along with some good books!

AcidJoe

If you chase without outs (even if cheap) then you are donking off chips. If you chase with odds your playing good poker. Unfortunately we always don't flop top pair with the nut flush draw. I've been chased down with almost everything. I just make notes on those people and want to play them. It shouldn't matter if it's 10 or 100 what matters is what's your chances and what's in the pot. I even bet out on a draw so it doesn't look like i'm chasing.

BBC Z

If you chase without outs (even if cheap) then you are donking off chips.

Implied odds?

DrTyore

BBC Z wrote:

If you chase without outs (even if cheap) then you are donking off chips.

Implied odds?

Though important to take into account, and considering this is a phenomenally low limit game, this can definately play a factor... HOWEVER... if we're going to get into that, we should just tell the OP'er to read "Theory of Poker" by Sklansky.

In fact... that's great advice

read that book.... it should be available everywhere books are sold.

Mark

healeycopter

Hey, OP here,

I haven't read "Theory of Poker", but I have read:
Harrington 1 & 2
Small Stakes Holdem (Sklansky et al)
Little Green Book (Gordon)

and...

The first poker book I ever read, found for $10 at Chapters? "Winning at Poker - Essential Hints and Tips" by some guy named Dave Scharf! At the time I had no idea who that was.

So, I'm a well-read but inexperienced poker player, with under 2k hands of play most at LHE rather than NLHE.

FYI, if you're curious about Dave's book, it's a very well-written intro to LHE and 7-stud. Most of you would find the material basic; it boils down to "Play Tight. Bet when you're best. Good draw to Invest. Fold all the rest."

Few would argue against that strategy for low limits...

Also, to BBC Z, Acid Joe said "if you have no outs"--I'm not sure you have any implied odds if you have no outs!! But good point since you almost always have a few outs. I think this is the most difficult part of the game, knowing where you stand, and which outs to count, and how much money you can get out of the other guy if you hit.

The other day I hit runner-runner 6 to make trip 6's and stacked someone. She was like "lucky", I said "yes", but I was thinking to myself "bet more than 10% of the pot and maybe people won't get lucky against you so often..."