NL cash game -- late position question

GTA Poker

Assuming a 9-10 handed 2 5 NL game, most stacks $400-$800. Around 30% of the pots raised to $15-$20 preflop.

Three limpers to you in the cutoff or on the button and you have QT suited. You know that you don't have the best hand at this point as one of the EP limpers is a fairly TAG, by the book player.

Do you raise to get the blinds out, or do you limp along to keep the pot small and see a cheap flop?

wader

I will usually limp here. Sometimes I will raise to get the flop checked to me...depends on opponents

Metro

75% of the time I am probably tossing this - but that is just my particular style - with Q-10s it becomes tough to determine if you have the best hand - you may have a worse str8 - or counterfeited str8 - top pair with second best kicker - or middle pair. I prefer it if it is suited, but that doesnt change my mind that much - I am more hesitant to call a flop bet when I could already be drawing dead against a higher flush.

However, for the right value I may call to see a fliop and either get lucky and hit it hard or play off the other players (the position is nice).

I probably only raise this 5-10% of the 25% of the time I am playing it - and that would more likely be from middle position to isolate a possible weak player in EP.

Some people like Q-10 but I find this to be one of those hands where you generally break even over the long run - or lose. With Q-10 I dont like the edge enough to play it on a regular basis - however - If I am offered good odds in LP I will toss in a couple chips to see what happens.

AcidJoe

I limp with that many people in the pot. Hope to hit the flop hard and go from there.

GTA Poker

Ok, I'm not talking specifically about QTs...IMO not playing this hand in a limped pot with position you are playing wayyyyyyy too tight for a NL cash game...

...anyhow, pick whatever broadway-type hand you want that you would play in that position and assume you don't have the best hand at that moment, but are ahead of two random blind hands...do you raise to try and get the blinds out and see a 3-4 handed flop or limp and see a 6 handed flop.

I realize this is a very general question and there are lots of variants wrt who's in the pot, etc...but, in general, do you like to shorten the field preflop to give yourself a better chance of taking down a pot with position.

g2

GTA Poker wrote:

in general, do you like to shorten the field preflop to give yourself a better chance of taking down a pot with position.

It depends on what limits I'm playing. If it's a loose low limit game where everyone wants to see the flop, I just limp.

But if it's a medium limit game (for my BR) I would raise to 4 or 5 BB. Sometimes this is even good enough to pick up the pot right there... if not I've either gotta hit the flop hard or outplay just 1 or 2 opponents.

/g2

SirWatts

I'm just limping along to maximaize my implied odds usually. I don't see a lot of value in building a big pot with a marginal hand preflop if they're just going to call, so if I raised it would be because I know I can push out a few of the limpers and play the pot against 1 or 2 weak players postflop who I can easily push off if they don't hit the flop hard (I would need a tight/solid table image probably). Against normal donks who call everything I'm limping along and hoping to hit big so I get paid off. If I'm not suited I'm dumping a lot of these marginal broadway hands though unless a couple of the limpers before me are particularly weak and the stacks are deep enough (100xBB+ as in your example is prboably fine if they're that bad).

KRNL

I would raise here more often than I would limp, although I will also often fold here as well. Of late I've started to play paint hands aggressively from LP and dumping them otherwise. A hand like KJo doesn't really have the greatest implied odds or draw value but it does have decent pair and even highcard value. It should be obvious that position gives you information, which reduces ambiguity, which in turn allows you to maximze marginal holdings. Thus, a preflop raise with a hand you intend to play in marginal situations (like QTo) does the same thing. Of course everything is easier to play in LP but the marginal positional gain for a hand like 7d6d is less, in my opinion, than for a hand like QTo. So, I think that raising preflop does more for a hand like QTo than a drawing hand.

Other textural considerations aside, I've had a fair amount of success lately by focusing my LP raises solely on made-value hands like pocket fours and KJo and saving my implied-value hands for E and MP.

TexLexus

Usually fold. Unless the players to my left are tight, the I limp.

CrazyJoe113

raise, with your postion you have a decent shot at taking down the pot whether you hit the flop or not.

Meistro

Folding here is bad, imo, unless you are up against very tough opposition or the blinds like to steal alot preflop. If you have a rock like image raising 6-7xBB might be ok here but in the typical loose, live NL game, limping is best. You have a hand that can hit some pretty powerful hands AND when it hits a strong hand (trip tens, a straight, two pair) you will often get action. Be careful if you hit trip queens or top pair, because you will often be beaten still.

LuckyPaul

I would limp here to see a flop.

CrazyJoe113

More i think about this concept, more I think raising is a better play if you think you can outplay opponents after the flop, especially if you are in the cutoff as you REALLY want the button out moreso than the blinds, position with this kind of hand is important.