How do you play the flop

ChugsChugs
in Online Poker
Some hand analysis

PokerStars Game #4820779939: Tournament #23911846, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/05/03 - 13:09:00 (ET)
Table '23911846 17' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: eriholer (7110 in chips)
Seat 2: Amor De Reys (2580 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: chugs (6225 in chips)
Seat 4: manub (2605 in chips)
Seat 5: YouAreMopped (1900 in chips)
Seat 6: JJROD (2355 in chips)
Seat 7: JessieSK (1890 in chips)
Seat 9: DrDavid (5155 in chips)
JessieSK: posts small blind 75
DrDavid: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chugs [Jh 9h]
eriholer: folds
Amor De Reys: folds
chugs: raises 300 to 450
manub: folds
YouAreMopped: folds
JJROD: folds
JessieSK: folds
DrDavid: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [Qh 3h Tc]
DrDavid: checks
chugs: bets 1000
DrDavid: raises 3705 to 4705 and is all-in
chugs: calls 3705

DrDavid: shows [Qd Th]
chugs: shows [Jh 9h]


Ignoring the pre-flop riase for a second.

I've been trying to figure out if my flop play was correct. I obviously flopped a strong drawing hand, with a flush draw and an open ended straight draw. Now once i get check raised all-in by the other player what range of hands should i be willing to give him credit for. Would checking and seeing if my draw gets there be simply to weak a way to play it.

Also for that math wizards out here, how about if he had simply pushed all-in on the flop, before I bet ... can I call in that spot. I know my hand looks damn nice, but at this point i have J high.

Comments

  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Ignoring the pre-flop riase for a second.
    I almost guarantee they can't resist... :D

    The pot was offering you 2:1 and you can assume you had 15 outs. So ya, it was correct to call.

    If he had pushed on the flop, the pot would be offering you 1.25 to 1. When you are at least 50:50 to win the hand, almost any pot odds are worthwhile.

    Whether to check or not depends on a lot of factors, of course. Your table image, his previous actions, can you induce a bluff into your straight on the turn, etc. The thing I don't like about checking is you don't build the pot at all, so when your flush hits, he may not be willing to put any more money into the pot. Plus, you don't know, with a lousy underpair, he may fold to a flop bet.
  • specialKspecialK
    FOLD PREFLOP, now after i got that out of the way:

    I would almost always bet at this... You know you have got 15 outs and you are 50-50 to win the hand, as for him CRing you all in, he can't have a hand that will beat the hands you are drawing to unless he has the nut flush draw and in that case you still have 14 outs... all your chips should be going in the pot in this situation IMO.
  • MeistroMeistro
    Fold preflop, barring that, check the flop, call if you have odds, fold if you don't.
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    I don't hate the raise preflop, it'd be better if stacks were deeper. Flop is an easy bet and then easy call. This is one of the worst hands you could run into and you're still 50/50, only thing you're in bad shape against is a bigger flush draw.

    Board: Qh Tc 3h
    Dead:

    equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
    Hand 1: 47.9798 % 47.98% 00.00% { Jh9h }
    Hand 2: 52.0202 % 52.02% 00.00% { QdTh }
  • stpboystpboy
    If you're going to play that hand from EP, come in with a raise. You did, so I don't mind it at all. Being the aggressor is never a bad thing. I play the hand post flop exactly as you would, your bet looks like a typical continuation bet when in fact you hit pretty hard with your sub-par hand.

    stp
  • ChugsChugs
    I'm amazed looking at Sir Watts stats, that i was actually in that good a shape. I figured i might be something like 40:60 or 35:65 even against that strong hand but to see i'm a virtual coin toss is amazing, give DrDavid a Ten in a different suit and i'm guessing i might actually be a small favourite.


    In terms of the pre-flop raise. The table was playing unbelievably tight and I had been raising a wide range of hands and having no one play back ... so i was taking the keep raising as long as they allow me too ... (ie raise every 2-3 hands).
  • AcidJoeAcidJoe
    I probably play it exactly like you. The check raise all in smells big pair to me or he hit the flop hard(which he did) and he is trying now to protect his hand by taking the pot down now after your standard continuation bet. I'm assuming you lost here, tho I guess we will find the results shortly.
  • waderwader
    I think you played the hand just fine.....yes even the preflop raise. Tight table you are a big stack and J9s is a perfect hand to bully with. His range of hands would be A10, Q10, 33, possibly AQ and of course the draws depending on how aggresive he is.
  • ChugsChugs
    The results

    *** FLOP *** [Qh 3h Tc]
    DrDavid: checks
    chugs: bets 1000
    DrDavid: raises 3705 to 4705 and is all-in
    chugs: calls 3705
    *** TURN *** [Qh 3h Tc] [2c]
    *** RIVER *** [Qh 3h Tc 2c] [5h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    DrDavid: shows [Qd Th] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
    chugs: shows [Jh 9h] (a flush, Queen high)
    chugs collected 10385 from pot
    DaveTrig is connected
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 10385 | Rake 0
    Board [Qh 3h Tc 2c 5h]
    Seat 1: eriholer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Amor De Reys folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: chugs showed [Jh 9h] and won (10385) with a flush, Queen high
    Seat 4: manub folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: YouAreMopped folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: JJROD (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: JessieSK (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 9: DrDavid (big blind) showed [Qd Th] and lost with two pair, Queens and
    Tens


    I actually forgot to post the results until AcidJoe mentioned it, i guess for this hand the results don't even matter.
  • PinheadPinhead
    Chugs wrote:
    I actually forgot to post the results until AcidJoe mentioned it, i guess the results don't even matter.
    FYP

    If the table is playing that tight, I think raising here is fine (I might be a bit biased towards J9h though)
    Flop seems pretty standard (definitely call the CR) - why take the lead preflop with J9 and then
    hit the monster flop and stop being aggressive?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think him having the Th hurts your odds because if he has Tx, then
    the Th still isn't an out for you because it makes his full house (Not counting the rare cases where you
    backdoor a straight flush)

    For the record /Greg, J9 beat QT...and 78 too for that matter Mark :)
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