Strength of Pocket J's

JohnnyVk

First of all.

Thanks to those on the board who responded to some earlier posts I had. While having alot of fun playing, I had not been having a load of success with loose play. The board provided me with some suggestions and the value of tightening up a little. The comment that has rung with the most truth was that by playing fewer hands you have to make fewer difficult decisions. A big benefit of being a little more selective is the ability to steal a pot from time to time.

SInce playing a little more selectively I have moved from a few straight sessions with large losses to 4 sessions with small to moderate wins. :wav:

Now to the matter at hand.

Last night I played in a 72 person tournament. Twice I got into trouble with pocket J's. Moving all-in with them on the final table lead to my ultimate demise when I was called by A Q offsuit (he hit the Q on the flop and the A on the river).

I'm interested in the best way to play JJ, and would appreciate comments on both no limit tournament play and structured limit cash games for JJ.

Thanks,

:jh

pkrfce9

it depends. your question is far too nebulous. give us a specific, detailed situation and we can comment on it.

but always open for a raise.

JohnnyVk

Okay. Here is a specific.

Blinds 1500/3000 - My stack is at 31000 about average on a table of 10. Final table in the tourney that will see top 7 get paid. 3 players are in the lead with stacks ~60,000.

I catch pocket J's in 4th position. UTG did not open.

Flint Bones

In this instance you were dead unless you decided to fold preflop. With the Q on the flop he was calling all the way down.

If you raised to 15000 and folded on the flop you would have been crippled.

pkrfce9

You don't have  much of a stack to play with. Pushing and hoping no one has a better hand behind you is definitely an option. Unfortunately that didn't work this time.

You could also try a small raise (maybe to 7.5 or 8k). If you get re-raised, tough decision. You'd likely call, since you are likely looking at a race and you've already got a fair number of chips in the pot. (With AQ, I'd definitely consider re-raising depending on your table image.) If the flop comes with cards lower than J, you could push then. By having a decent stack of chips back, you can potentially chase out someone with a draw or a high card that could hit on the turn or river. If the flop comes with a higher card, again, maybe a tough decision for you.

Irah

PUSHHHHHH.  With your stack relative to the blinds ( just over 10x)  in an unraised pot I am pushing almost everytime preflop.

meltedmark

Standard raise 3x the BB
if you get raised, u can get away from it ie:  :ah :qd or  :ad :as or :as :kh
all of these overs
u know what,  :10h :js had better odds because of the st8 possibilities
i too actually have folded  :qd :qs late in a tourney as you just were: on account moving up a postion to the money is more likely

ChrisWinsor

If top 7 get paid, i'd probably limp, then push if no AKQ showed. If im that close to the money i'll lay down some big hands.

pkrfce9

meltedmark wrote:

u know what,  :10h :js had better odds because of the st8 possibilities

In what game ???

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 43.0770 % 42.88% 00.20% { AQo }
Hand 2: 56.9230 % 56.72% 00.20% { JJ }


equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 63.3839 % 63.17% 00.22% { AQo }
Hand 2: 36.6161 % 36.40% 00.22% { JTo }


equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 87.0255 % 85.97% 01.06% { JJ }
Hand 2: 12.9745 % 11.92% 01.06% { JTo }

I don't agree with folding JJ preflop. So, I really don't agree with folding QQ. There are less hands you aren't a significant favourite over and less likely to have overcards on the flop. Of course, you have a greater chance of busting out of the money but you're giving up a chance at much more money by playing them.

AcidJoe

Right now it's as easy as push or fold...... I push...... race while I"m ahead......

HP_John

Push pre-flop & hope for the best. You only have 10 BBs, you might not see a better hand.

I understand being tentative because you’re close to the money, but you can’t fold pocket JJ preflop when there’s been no raise. If you raise to 3 BBs, it’s hard to fold to a reraise (since you’d only have 7 BBs left) & it’s hard to play post-flop if there are over-cards. If you bet post-flop & are raised, you’re crippled & behind.

specialK

no question about it in my mind, push preflop...

JohnnyVk

Thanks for the comments folks.

I was pretty confident with the move, and was unfortunate to come up against 2 overcards. Insult to injury that they both hit.

AS noted by a few I was in the 10 BB range and blinds were stepping up quickly - 10 minute increments - I did not state that earlier.

Regards,

:jh

y2money

This is what I would do with JJ-

Early position- small raise and then call a small reraise or fold a big reraise
Middle position- call the blind or small raise, fold a big raise
late position- call the blind or small raise, fold a big raise

After the flop, if there are undercards then make a bet, if there are overcards check and if someone puts in a bet, fold. What else can you do. I think you gotta play slow and let the hand develop and if you don't hit and it look like you might be beat then have the disipline to fold. But hey what do I know.

disciple

I think that pocket jacks should be everytime mucked face up preflop. The hand is garbage unless you hit a set and even then how many times do you win with a set of jacks. I think the problem is is that pocket jacks are played when everyone else have the high cards to make straights and pair overcards on you. If i could stay away from the hand I will.