Using a loose-weak player to play against a new player at the table.

Metro

I am sure that this trick has been used many times before - but this is the first time I have figured it out.

The scenario is low-limit hold'em. Perfect because you have a lot of weak loose players - and also many new players rotating in.

SonnyNail (see below) is the tool. I have been watching his play and it is not uncommon for him to call down with K high (as seen below). However, if he hits he will bet back - making it very easy to read when in fact he has a hand.

A new player enters the table. He becomes the mark.

Basically I will bet at any flop a have a small piece of and even with an ace high.

The weak player is 1+ to my left so he is almost always acting before the mark.

So when an uncoordinated flop comes - I will bet - Sonnycall - as will the mark. (If mark raises - I abandon)

Turn - if the turn brings no danger card - I make the big bet - SonnyNail insta call - mark hesitates and folds.

Making it heads up against the loose weak player - and getting rid of the new guy.

The hitch in this is when you get a coordinated flop and you have a good hand but the LW keeps giving the mark the odds to call.

This worked several times at my table - the following is one example.

Example:

***** Hand History for Game 4098382243 *****
$0.50/$1 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, April 26, 11:39:14 ET 2006
Table Kitty Hawk (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: bovdur ( $26.50 )
Seat 4: stef4n82 ( $29.50 )
Seat 6: FreeJay34 ( $19 )
Seat 7: SonnyNail ( $32 )
Seat 9: dfob7 ( $15.50 )
Seat 3: CamelToeLick ( $49 )
Seat 1: DanLive ( $28.75 )
Seat 5: Crouvex ( $24.75 )
Seat 8: ZapQuick ( $25 )
dfob7 posts small blind [$0.25].
DanLive posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to CamelToeLick [ Ad Kc ]
bovdur folds.
CamelToeLick calls [$0.50].
stef4n82 folds.
Crouvex folds.
FreeJay34 folds.
SonnyNail calls [$0.50].
dfob7 raises [$0.75].
DanLive folds.
CamelToeLick raises [$1].
SonnyNail calls [$1].
dfob7 calls [$0.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 3c, 4s ]
dfob7 checks.
CamelToeLick bets [$0.50].
SonnyNail calls [$0.50].
dfob7 calls [$0.50].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
dfob7 checks.
CamelToeLick bets [$1].
SonnyNail calls [$1].
dfob7 folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]
CamelToeLick checks.
SonnyNail checks.
CamelToeLick shows [ Ad, Kc ] a pair of fours.
SonnyNail doesn't show [ 5c, Ks ] a pair of fours.
CamelToeLick wins $8 from the main pot with a pair of fours with ace kicker.

BBC Z

Your logic sounds like it was made for NL.. and then you show a Limit hand that just involves you leading out

I don't exactly understand where the revolution is.

Heres the way I see it:

You preflop raised with a premium hand.

You continuation bet the flop.

You bet the turn for a free showdown in position.

You blanked the river and took the showdown.

Very standard stuff here.

Metro

That was just the hand when I realized it was working. I agree that i was probably ahead here - but change the AK to A5 - I am still making the same play with the same results.

The same thing had been completed with weaker aces as well as mid-pair.

Anytime I can remove the third player before the river - especially when I am not sure where I stand - I am happy to do so.

The continuation bet is standard on the flop. But with a weak Ace I am unlikely to continue betting on turn with 2 flop callers.

I agree about the NL part - I think it is a standard play in NL I was just surprised to see it working so well in Limit - again it could just be the flow this morning.

When you lead out preflop and lead on the flop in limit with all crap on the board it offers a nice opportunity for someone to push back at you (when you are HU) because you cant fill up that often. The middle caller makes it more difficult for someone to attempt that.

ScoobyD

I'm think you're missing something. You very likely had the best hand. While you might have folded out a small pair, I think it's much more likely the third player had an UI big ace or 2 paint. If he has a pocket pair, he either has an overpair to board, or small pair, that probably looks pretty good given the raggedy flop. While it's true your limp-raise preflop should indicate strength, I don't like using it at a loose passive table. If the idiots will cold-call why not just raise yourself? Knowing when to value bet and call down with an A-high is tricky, but in this spot, it looks highly like you had the best hand... NH.

moose

I see what you are saying Tom but don't you really want to make that play, not against a new guy but against a player who you read as a TAG? If you know the TAG will continue to play you aggressively heads up but fold in a multiway pot, you might try making use of the fish in between.

With no read, you are expecting a lot of the new guy to be able to play anything other than his own cards.

Be careful too because if the players are smart enough to be more than Level 1 players, they will soon realize you are autobetting the flop, out of position, when you are in a hand with the fish.

Out of position, I really don't like betting into a fish with nothing, who I know won't fold. You are hoping that your nothing is better than 2 other players who may or may not have outflopped you but will call you down anyways. You will never know if you are ahead unless they are aggressive enough to raise.