Is QQ vs AK any better than 22 vs AK?

TheBusDriverTheBusDriver
in General Poker Chat
I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but I'd like to hear how others reason it out.

P.S. and I don't want to hear a bunch of computer generated math like 54.675% favorite. :D

Comments

  • WaterLooserWaterLooser
    With 22 there are a lot of other strange things that can happen, like a double paired board which then leaves you with a 2 kicker (or probably the 5th card on the board as the kicker :) )

    With QQ you also have some of the cards that could fill possible straights, etc.

    If you boil it right down, generally the AK has 6 outs, I'd get my chips in ....
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    I think essentially they're an identical situation in that you are hoping to avoid a K or A dropping, however, there is one other "outside" chance of losing with 22 that is negated wtih QQ.

    On a board like 9-9-7-5 with QQ, you're beat only by an A or K, but with 22, you're beat if an A, K, 7, or 5 drops.

    Basically if your pair is negated, you lose, so 22 is worse than QQ.. thoguh I'm sure it only changes the %'s by a little bit.

    Mark
  • WaterLooserWaterLooser
    Mark, just go ahead and delete your reply since you basically juse re-phrased mine. It's ok, you can do it.
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    Dammit.. you type faster than me apparantly.

    Mark
  • BigChrisElBigChrisEl
    Busdriver weren't you at the game where pkrfce9 went all-in with a hand like A-7 and was called by (if I remember correctly) JHJ with pocket Queens, when the board was K,K,K,K,2 giving him the pot with his Ace kicker?
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Ya. Life is good. Pair counterfeiting is a bummer.

    It was briefly mentioned but another added value of QQ is it will block some of the straights AK could make. Enough of a difference to shift this from a pure race to something closer to 55/45 - but I haven't run the numbers...

    Of course 22 blocks straights the Ace could make but these are less likely anyway.
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Wen you are playing a game of incomplete information ( the cards are hidden) then QQ vs AK is way better than 22 vs AK.

    When you flip them over theres no difference.
  • roketinpoketroketinpoket
    QQ also has a slightly better straight draw in addition to them not as likely to get counterfeited.
  • TheBusDriverTheBusDriver
    BigChrisEl wrote:
    Busdriver weren't you at the game where pkrfce9  went all-in with a hand like A-7 and was called by (if I remember correctly) JHJ with pocket Queens, when the board was K,K,K,K,2 giving him the pot with his Ace kicker?

    lol, I think I remember that hand. but for the record witnessing an Ace-rage suckout , is different from playing Ace-rage and sucking it out.

    Anyway, so for the record I was thinking QQ was better, now I just have alot more reasons. Thanks guys.
  • moosemoose
    TheBusDriver wrote:


    lol, I think I remember that hand.  but for the record witnessing an Ace-rage suckout , is different from playing Ace-rage and sucking it out.

    What is that? A Freudian slip?
  • CrazyJoe113CrazyJoe113
    AK suited where neither 2 is of that suit is actually favoured over 22. QQ is closer to a 3:2 favourite over AK than it is a coinflip... QQ is MUCH better than 22 against AK
  • AcidJoeAcidJoe
    at the end of the day any pair against AK if you don't hit either you loose......
  • jpajamasjpajamas
    If you have to ask, fold. Let me know what site you play on... :D
  • ChrisWinsorChrisWinsor
    AKo QQo differnet suites = 56.99% for queens

    AK0 22o different suites = 52.75 for deuces

    :D:D:D
  • 13CARDS13CARDS
    ChrisWinsor wrote:
    AKo QQo differnet suites = 56.99% for queens

    AK0 22o different suites = 52.75 for deuces

    :D:D:D

    See above OP:
    P.S. and I don't want to hear a bunch of computer generated math like 54.675% favorite.

    I think we can all punch numbers into a calculator.

    I was thinking and discussing a similar question with some friends, which would you prefer:

    1. All in with 2-2 and called by A-A
    OR
    2. All in with K-K and called by A-A

    Personally, I see absolutely no difference.
  • MetroMetro
    You look better making the call with KK :)
  • roketinpoketroketinpoket
    ChrisWinsor wrote:
    AKo QQo differnet suites = 56.99% for queens

    AK0 22o different suites = 52.75 for deuces

    :D:D:D

    If those QQ or 22 are suited I would be asking for a deck change.
  • y2moneyy2money
    If it's heads up I think it is the same thing but if there are more people involved in the pot then your guess is as good as mine. I say go ALL IN and cross your fingers.
  • beanie42beanie42
    Sorry, got here late. There is enough of a difference that QQ is better vs the AK.
    13CARDS wrote:
    1. All in with 2-2 and called by A-A
    OR
    2. All in with K-K and called by A-A
    Here, there is almost no difference, although statistically there is a TINY edge by KK. However, I would take the 22 because it has a huge psychological edge. Getting your aces cracked hurts a lot, but having them cracked by ducks hurts a lot more than by the second-best starting hand. While I never want to get into this situation, the 22 is better because the few times I do suck-out, the likely tilt-fest that ensues makes it a better hand in the context of the entire game.
  • discipledisciple
    In my honest opinion I believe that there is no difference in either hand except that I think that if AK pushes first i may fold thinking that they are on an overpair to the deuces. If i have the player pegged on AK then I get my chips in. I had this happen on UB once where I had 44 and raised preflop player to my left three bet, and I called. Flop came TT5, I bet out to represent the ten he raised I called. Turn comes another ten so I bet again this time he just calls. River comes pairing the five and my hand is now playing the board. I checked he bet I called(tough to fold a board hand at that point) and he turns over AK. I had him pegged for AK and he still gets out of the hand. What can you do thats poker!
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