I am interested in hearing your ruling here...

13CARDS

Here is the scenario:

Cash game, let's say $2/$5 NL. Full table. Action pre-flop is not really relevant. Let's say 5 people call for the flop.

The dealer burns (Card A) and exposes the flop (Card B, Card C and Card D).

Again, the action is not relevant except that we end up with 3 people All In. (There will be no more action.)

The dealer burns (Card E) and then a player argues about the amount in the side pot that was created. Dealer resolves the issue.

NOW...

The dealer burns another card (Card F). The "turn" card (Card G) is exposed on the board. The table erupts in argument, accusation and upheaval.

How best to resolve this scenario? Please refer to the cards by letter (ie: A, B, C or whatever rather than Turn, Burn or River, as that will get confusing, I think). I would appreciate hearing from anyone, but especially anyone that hosts their own home games/tourneys.

OUT

The Prophet 22

If this happened in a West Side Event card F is turned over and it is stated it is not a burn but actually the turn card. Card G is announced as an exposed burned will be reshuffle the deck, including the card that was taken out of play, but not the burn card or discards.

Prophet 22

MickeyHoldem

If card F is clearly identifiable... it becomes the turn and card G is placed back in the deck and the deck is shuffled, then burn and deal river... if you can't identify card F... G stands as the turn card... flip H for the river (no burn)

13CARDS

MickeyHoldem and Prophet22...

Both of you offer resolutions that are nearly identical. That shows consistentcy being applied and a universal understanding of the rules and their application.

However, I find it interesting that you both choose to place Card G back into the deck, shuffle, burn and expose the river. In most irregularities, keeping the board the same as it would have been without the error is usually the key goal of the resolution. In your replies, the correct river card is available and you would therefor maintain the original board. By shuffling Card G back into the deck, you are creating a new river card. As all of the players were All In on the flop, wouldn't maintaining the originally intended board be the priority?

esool

13CARDS wrote:

MickeyHoldem and Prophet22...

Both of you offer resolutions that are nearly identical. That shows consistentcy being applied and a universal understanding of the rules and their application.

However, I find it interesting that you both choose to place Card G back into the deck, shuffle, burn and expose the river. In most irregularities, keeping the board the same as it would have been without the error is usually the key goal of the resolution. In your replies, the correct river card is available and you would therefor maintain the original board. By shuffling Card G back into the deck, you are creating a new river card. As all of the players were All In on the flop, wouldn't maintaining the originally intended board be the priority?

This is what I would think..
Waiting the response.

gokorda

maintaining the original board woudl seem the best scenario for this situation, although if there was still betting to be had, seeing that 'wrong' card, and having it as the next burn instead, could change the outcome of the hand by the actions of the players who saw the card. shuffling the unexposed card still maintains the randomization whie not changing the actions of any players involved.

Flint Bones

By shuffling Card G back into the deck, you are creating a new river card

Perhaps I missed something but wouldn't card "G" have been the burn card for the River and not the actual river? So reshuffling it shouldn't really matter.

Card A - Burn
BCD - Flop
E-Burn
F-Turn
G-Burn
H- River

13CARDS

So reshuffling it shouldn't really matter.

But, if you re-shuffle Card G back into the stub, you will create a new river card*.

In the OP, the original river card would be the top card of the deck. If you do not shuffle, that card can be brought to the board and you would have the originally intended flop, turn and river.



* Except for the rare occasion where that Card H ends up being two from the top after the shuffle and you burn one and then expose Card H.

TheBusDriver

I'm with flint bones on this one. No need to shuffle up the cards. The "F" card hasnt been exposed or lost. The "H" card hasn't been exposed or lost.

Back up G F and E. Resume dealing.

Another note:
The dealer and only the dealer has the acknowledge the mis-deal.
and the dealer has to be able to recognize if the cards G F and E are still identifiable.

Even with players tempers flaring. The madest or most verbal player doesn't rule. If the players are still upset, it becomes the ruling of the Host. If the host is involved in the hand, his authority reverts back to the dealer.

If this is one of those loosy goosy self-deal games. then your generally screwed. Since even the dealer, wheither in the hand or not, had a interest in the outcome.

Zithal

Card "F" would be the offical turn card and since what would be the original river card, (card H?) is still hidden and intact, Card G would be counted as an exposed card, announced to the players then placed face up on the deck, ready to be burned for the river.

Can't find an officially ruling to back me up, but that seems to make the most sence.

13CARDS

OK...seems pretty unan1mous.

Now, what if Card F (the originally intended turn card) is 100% NOT identifiable by the dealer, players or host/supervisor? Now what do you do to make things as fair as possible?


BTW---the situation did actually occur, in a live poker room.