Angle Shooting?
I'm playing in a live single table tournament. I consider everyone at the table to be an experienced player that knows the rules hands down, likely better than most. I only question this play because of the fact that the player involved would have to absolutely know what they were doing. Here is the situation:
Blinds 50/100 (5 handed)
utg raises to 610 and is all in
hero looks at his cards and is clearly agonizing over if he should call. utg has been playing wrecklessly and is most likely playing any two cards. He has went all in the past two hands showing his rags (78, 69) Hero has A10 and is the current chip leader at the table but not by much. As hero is agonizing over the call, the BB yells out "I call!" There were still 2 other players to act behind me. I obviously fold and the BB shows A9 to take down the pot. utg did in fact have rags again.
It doesn't matter who it was, I just want to know what you would do in this case and how severe a penalty (if any) the person would get. This was just a friendly home game but money was still on the line and in another situation I may have questioned it.
stp
Blinds 50/100 (5 handed)
utg raises to 610 and is all in
hero looks at his cards and is clearly agonizing over if he should call. utg has been playing wrecklessly and is most likely playing any two cards. He has went all in the past two hands showing his rags (78, 69) Hero has A10 and is the current chip leader at the table but not by much. As hero is agonizing over the call, the BB yells out "I call!" There were still 2 other players to act behind me. I obviously fold and the BB shows A9 to take down the pot. utg did in fact have rags again.
It doesn't matter who it was, I just want to know what you would do in this case and how severe a penalty (if any) the person would get. This was just a friendly home game but money was still on the line and in another situation I may have questioned it.
stp
Comments
If I were playing against them, I would ask the host to penalize them for intentionally acting out of turn.
If it were me holding the A9, I'd wait till you got in the pot so I could scoop it when I hit my 9-high straight
Seriously tho, in a home game fun or otherwise I'd use the three strikes approach, 1st time tell them they acted out of turn, second offense warn them they will be penalized if it happens again, third time throw a puck at them like Benie said, a timed penalty.
It is simple. Did you state that you were playing by a certain set of rules before the start of the game? If so point them to the rule in the rule book and allow them to make the penalty. It is like golf, I see it all the time, a player points to a certain point on the green with his club indicating where the break is for his partner. Once that club hits the green, it is an automatic two stroke penalty.
Last night at the satellite, Dave acted out of turn more than once, I believe it was three times alone in the tournament as well as the cash game. Mark was in charge and never said anything and neither did anyone on the table. I guess it could be levels of maturity. We all knew each other very well and knew there was no malice intended by Dave.Â
Yes money was on the line but it was the intent that mattered.
I am surprised you wouldn't say something, you are never one to shy away from a confrontation. I guess you have to ask yourself if you thought this was intentally done without regard for the edict of the game, or ask yourself why am I playing with these guys.
Cory, I guy I enjoy playing with, will often look at my mucked cards or Shopsy mucked cards to see if he got bluffed out of a hand. We all have a good laugh about it because we are friends even thought there is money on the line. We are good friends and enjoy the company we are playing with.Â
Hope this helps.
Prophet 22
Brent brings up 2 good points (which shows why WestSide works so well).
First, make sure the rules are totally clear before the game. In all my games (and I believe KPS/Bristol as well), the announcement clearly states RR will be used for disputes. When I'm somewhere where the rules aren't clearly spelled out, I may be a bit bitter inside, but I will not argue the ruling since different people have different house rulings. It's my responsibility as a player to know.
Second, intent is key. In my response above, it was based on "the player involved would have to absolutely know what they were doing". Honest mistakes happen, and they can usually be worked out far less formally. Again, while I defer to RR, some things happen in my tournies that players/myself ignore, but if push came to shove, I'd go back to the rulebook.
Then I'll cover my nuys because a punch to the crotch will definately be forthcoming.
I think when rules are not clearly established at the beginning of a tournament you really need to go by what the majority goes by, this is generally RR. I think in most cases people use the basics, no talking about hands, play in turn, no cheating etc.
Thanks for the comments, it sounds like most players would take this about as serisouly as I would have. The only reason I didn't say anything at the time was because I didn't feel it was worth it, some players will deny something to the death and take offense to it regardless of how it is brought up to them. It was a friendly game.
stp
lol
30 Verbal declarations Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Action out of turn may be binding.
I would usually make the call binding, but if hero or other player re-opens action, then call won't be binding.
I call out of order all the time.........
for a Pepi's double bacon & hot pepper pizza!
Anyway, I honestly think this thread is yucky.
I was at this game and feel that there was no ill-intent or angle shooting going on. I'm sure the people posting have sat at a cash game with friends, maybe I can't speak for everyone when I say that no one was there to make their rent money, but I do feel that was the case. When you get people who know each other together it can become a little silly and maybe you sometimes forget you are playing an etiquette game and reduce it to a night out with the guys. No one freaks out when you mis-roll in Monopoly, they just inform you it isn't your turn. It's not like it is the WSOP. When Cory fake mucks his hands with me so I show my cards or when two people both show one card, it stops being a "game developing" night and becomes a night of entertainment. Things like that make for laughs and good times. Which is nice when most games are pretty intense and require a lot of thought. I think it would be good to define the type of game you are getting into and maybe talking pre-deal about what will be tolerated and what penalties will be handed for infractions.
I honestly believe that if you think about it Shannon, you don't actually think any of the guys that played that night play the angles. And if you do believe it, I think you should have a chat with the individual to clear some things up. I had a ton of fun that night and didn't hit one single flop!