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Jay's Trip Report #5 (07/08/04)
Usual settings.
I played very few hands in the first couple of hours then started getting more playable hands later on. Here:
I pick up AA UTG+2 (I think) and raise, there's 3 callers. The flop is Q75. I raise a bet in front of me. The turn is a Q. It's checked to me, I bet and get check-raised. I fold AA face up and the raisor showed me 55.
I pick up AK in mid position and raise of course, there's three callers. The flop is 887. There's a bet in front of me, so I raise, and the bettor re-raises. I know for a fact that he does not have any piece of the board and that he's trying to bluff me because he knows I was playing very tight. I re-re-raise representing a big pair. He folds.
I pick up AJ in late position and raise to take the button, there's 3-4 callers. The flop comes Kxx. I bet and take the pot.
I pick up T7 in the BB and check it. The flop is 986, two suits. I check-raise. The turn was a 3 I think. I bet and there's two callers. The river is a T. I bet, get raised and call. The raisor had 76. Split pot.
I pick up JJ UTG and limp in. The flop is KTx. I bet and there's a few callers. The turn is a J. I bet out again and no one calls.
I pick up AsQs in mid position and call 2 bets. The flop is KsJs3h. I raise a bet in front of me. The turn is 3s. I bet. The river is a blank. I bet, get called and take the pot.
I pick up JJ on the button and raise, there's 4 callers. The flop is J76, two suits. It's checked to me and I bet. The turn is a third diamond. I knew I was going to be check-raised but I bet anyways and sure enough I was raised. I call with the correct odds for the board to pair. No help on the river. I fold to a bet.
I pick up 99 in early position and limp in. There is a raise and I call. The flop is T98. The betting was capped, I think. The turn is a T. I check-raise, two others left. The river is a J. I bet and get raised. I'm pretty sure that I got beat on the river but with the amount of money in the pot (around $200) I have to call. I lose to JT.
These are pretty much the only hands I played to the river, to the best of my memory.
In the first couple of hours, I was down about $80 from the blinds or limp-and-fold hands. Then I got to +$90 before those last two losing hands I described. By then I dropped down to -$20. Then I decided to call it a night because the table was down to seven players, and I was tired and hungry. So I ended up stuck $20 in four hours.
I played very few hands in the first couple of hours then started getting more playable hands later on. Here:
I pick up AA UTG+2 (I think) and raise, there's 3 callers. The flop is Q75. I raise a bet in front of me. The turn is a Q. It's checked to me, I bet and get check-raised. I fold AA face up and the raisor showed me 55.
I pick up AK in mid position and raise of course, there's three callers. The flop is 887. There's a bet in front of me, so I raise, and the bettor re-raises. I know for a fact that he does not have any piece of the board and that he's trying to bluff me because he knows I was playing very tight. I re-re-raise representing a big pair. He folds.
I pick up AJ in late position and raise to take the button, there's 3-4 callers. The flop comes Kxx. I bet and take the pot.
I pick up T7 in the BB and check it. The flop is 986, two suits. I check-raise. The turn was a 3 I think. I bet and there's two callers. The river is a T. I bet, get raised and call. The raisor had 76. Split pot.
I pick up JJ UTG and limp in. The flop is KTx. I bet and there's a few callers. The turn is a J. I bet out again and no one calls.
I pick up AsQs in mid position and call 2 bets. The flop is KsJs3h. I raise a bet in front of me. The turn is 3s. I bet. The river is a blank. I bet, get called and take the pot.
I pick up JJ on the button and raise, there's 4 callers. The flop is J76, two suits. It's checked to me and I bet. The turn is a third diamond. I knew I was going to be check-raised but I bet anyways and sure enough I was raised. I call with the correct odds for the board to pair. No help on the river. I fold to a bet.
I pick up 99 in early position and limp in. There is a raise and I call. The flop is T98. The betting was capped, I think. The turn is a T. I check-raise, two others left. The river is a J. I bet and get raised. I'm pretty sure that I got beat on the river but with the amount of money in the pot (around $200) I have to call. I lose to JT.
These are pretty much the only hands I played to the river, to the best of my memory.
In the first couple of hours, I was down about $80 from the blinds or limp-and-fold hands. Then I got to +$90 before those last two losing hands I described. By then I dropped down to -$20. Then I decided to call it a night because the table was down to seven players, and I was tired and hungry. So I ended up stuck $20 in four hours.
Comments
This hand really stuck out at me.. You had a large pot that comprised over 15 BB (I dont know how many callers stuck around on the turn+river ) and folded top set on the river to a single bet? You were getting over 15:1 on your money for a call on the river with a hand that is probably best most of the time. Did you just have a stone cold read on this guy that he actually had the flush? Assuming someone hit the flush just because the card hits is a very weak play. Did you ever consider that the raiser/callers could have hands like bottom two pair, A7, A6, 89 etc which you have dominated?
Are you primarily a no limit player? I great tip that I picked up from Gary Carson's book was that (paraphrasing): "In no limit, I constantly ask myself 'am I beat?' In limit, I never became a winning player until I stopped asking myself that question'".. <apologies for butchering it>
What he's basically saying is that Limit poker is a game of Pot odds/Bet odds and probabilities. It doesn't matter much in Limit poker if you are beat, as long as you are getting correct pot odds & bet odds to draw to a likely winner. And the nice thing about limit poker is that you almost always have odds to call a single bet on the river if you have any kind of hand. You dont need to win every single time you call a bet on the river, but as long as you win more than your fair share, you will be a winning long term player.
Anyway.. my 2c.
Nicely played if you are pretty sure of that read. I'm shocked that you found a Brantford 5-10 player would make it 3 bets on the flop and fold for the 4th bet. Since it turns out that he has at least 3 outs (more likely 6) against you, he probably is making a FTOP mistake by folding against your Ace high for $5 more even if he was running a stone cold bluff.
Nice play here. It sort of depends on what rags are out there. I'd play it the same way into K73 rainbow, but not K65 two-suited.
Well played here not slowplaying it and you get an unlucky river. Assuming no flush is possible, I would often re-raise that river especially against what I thought was a (even slightly) bad player. I think I'll run into a J7 less often than a player playing T9 (or maybe even TT) poorly. Nothing at all wrong with just calling the river raise of course.
I think I've said something like this already elsewhere. Nothing wrong with limping in UTG with JJ, and raising would be good too. However, the choice you make pre-flop has got to determine how you play the later streets. Basically, limping in with the Jacks says you are treating them like a drawing hand. You spike a set (or something strong like 89To) or fold. Period. You have to think ahead when making the pre-flop decision. If you'd like to continue playing your JJ is the flop comes 249 rainbow, you had better have raised with the Jacks pre-flop.
So in this case, check the flop with the intention of folding. In this particular case, the turn action suggests that no-one has a K, so you may be lucky enough to see a free turn card anyway. But in general, a flop of one overcard to your JJ *if* you limped pre-flop is unplayable.
Again, the limping in itself is not bad--- just adjust your flop play to account for the fact that you limped. You want to play it like it was 22.
I like just calling, not raising, on the flop when you have a huge draw like this. It's a pretty close decision because you have the gutshot draw in addition to the flush draw.
In general, however, raising does two very bad things:
1. Scares out your potential customers for the turn and river if you do hit your draw.
2. Cuts down your own pot-odds for the draw.
In this case, since you have such a big draw (since it includes the gutshot), point #2 is not nearly as important as #1.
Lee Jones even suggests "raising for value" on the flop with many players in with good draws (e.g. the nut flush draw by itself) in WLLH. This is one of the few things in that book that I disagree with.
I like to think of it this way. If someone bet into you, would you raise on the small betting round if you actually flopped the nut flush instead? Probably not. So why would you play the nut *draw* more aggressively than the made nut flush?
I'll usually call on this river (if it's not a 4th suited card), despite probably losing. It's certainly correct to call the turn raise as you mentioned. It's probably debatable whether or not you should bet the turn, although I'd probably often bet it as you did.
Well played here. Certainly nothing wrong with calling the river raise. You *maybe* would consider only a check-call on the river, but I think bet-call is okay too.
Sounds like a good move. I don't care much myself for playing with 7 players or less in a low-limit ring game, and being tired, hungry, or otherwise not feeling 100% is are great reasons to quit a game.
ScottyZ
Sorry, I forgot to mention that there was a four card straight on the board. I was 100% sure that the raisor made his flush, and the other man in the hand made his straight. At the showdown, the raisor showed his flush and the other guy mucked. It seemed like this guy had my number all night. He is the same guy who re-raised me when I had AK and folded to one more bet after my re-re-raise, which I was pretty surprised at. I noticed that everytime I raised in position he'd always defended his blinds. I guess he's one of "those" guys...?
I showed my AA hand to induce him to show me his, or to look like a fool if I had him beat or he bluffed me. He was a nice guy so I figured that he would show his hand if I showed mine.
About the AsQs hand, I was thinking about just calling so that the guy behind me would call. He told me that I saved him money by raising because he would've made trip 3's. I'll take this play into considerationg for next time.
Thanks for the responses, guys.
Edit: I just remember a small hand. I don't know why it always comes to me a lot later:
I pick up Jh9h in the BB, there's 5-6 limpers and I check it. The flop is AJx. Checks all around. I feel that my middle pair is good here, I'm betting the turn if it's a rag. The turn was a rag. I bet and everyone folds.