Pocket Pair gets tripped on a Flushed Flop

STR82ACE

This one had me thinking hard. I ended up folding it, but was wondering if it was the right move at the time. I had both covered, but I felt sure I was beat.

$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, April 17, 20:34:09 ET 2006
Table Dare Devil (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: Mikeeey300 ( $18.62 )
Seat 7: bubba0077 ( $99.55 )
Seat 2: GoingGray ( $88.60 )
Seat 6: JoelTorsk ( $181.06 )
Seat 8: try111 ( $26 )
Seat 1: GorillaUnit7 ( $153.63 )
Seat 4: Marine_1968 ( $62.50 )
Seat 3: begbie77 ( $122.75 )
Seat 10: Zack999111 ( $29 )
Seat 9: dapa2700 ( $100 )
JoelTorsk posts small blind [$0.50].
bubba0077 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to GoingGray [ Jc Jd ]
try111 calls [$1].
Zack999111 calls [$1].
GorillaUnit7 folds.
GoingGray calls [$1].
begbie77 folds.
Marine_1968 calls [$1].
Mikeeey300 folds.
JoelTorsk calls [$0.50].
bubba0077 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, As, 8s ]
JoelTorsk checks.
bubba0077 checks.
try111 bets [$5.19].
Zack999111 calls [$5.19].
GoingGray calls [$5.19].
Marine_1968 folds.
JoelTorsk folds.
bubba0077 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
try111 is all-In.
Zack999111 is all-In.

Your Move???

SOS

I count 7 outs for sure, and most likely 10, the A may not be an out if one of these guys has Aces up.

Therefore at about 3/1 pot odds and at best 3.5/1 card odds, it's a no call easy fold.

BBC Z

SOS wrote:

I count 7 outs for sure, and most likely 10, the A may not be an out if one of these guys has Aces up.

Therefore at about 3/1 pot odds and at best 3.5/1 card odds, it's a no call easy fold.

Booo... Theres atleast SOME percentage of the time both players are drawing to the one card flush or have something worse than the made hand.

Thank the stars your opponents have so few chips and call without sweating.

westside8

With opponents on such a short stack, I don't mind calling (I know what Pinhead will say about that!). If the push was for a more significant amount, then folding will become an option, but for $20, I am calling.

In any case, it is entirely possible that one (or even both) of them is holding a hand like AK/AQ (still drawing to a flush with TP), a combination of 2P, or whatever else you can come up with. Even though it looks as though one of them might already have a flush, I will willing to gamble here given the stack sizes and how much their all-ins are for.

GTA Poker

easy call against 2 short stacks, especially at low limit

AcidJoe

While I think I'd have played the hand differently, I call the short stacks all in. I may be behind, but in a low limit game I doubt it. Be happy the all in isn't for $75 or something that you get stuck for. BTW what did they have?

STR82ACE

One had the Ace, the other the King, both chasing the 4 card flush. Needless to say, I thought I was beat and folded after the turn. River came up an 8 that would have given me a boat too. Oh well, live and learn. Main reason I posted this hand was to see what the general thought was on this kind of hand.

Thanks to everyone who voiced an opinion.

sharpe88

why limp preflop ? and why cold call on the flop ?

SOS

I hadn't realized this forum had so many gamblers on it. (My definition of gambling in poker is getting your money in in a bad situation, which a call here would qualify as)

Maybe I give too much credit to other players, but if a guy has gone all in and already been called, how can you put both of them on a draw?

BigChrisEl

I think you should have raised it pre-flop...this would give you some idea where you are at and you could have even taken down the hand right there, but ignoring that if you should have thought to your self “If I call the bet on the flop would I be willing to call an all-in on the turn if a rag comes?” And your answered this question by folding on the turn.

If anything you should have raised (an extra $10) on the flop; then they would both be pot committed but at the same time this would give them a chance to fold with a decent amount of chips back. If they both called from there then you put them all-in on the turn.

ScoobyD

My definition of gambling in poker is getting your money in in a bad situation, which a call here would qualify as

You're getting 3:1 from the pot. Assuming you have 10 outs and are behind, this makes you about a 3.6:1 dog. If you're ALWAYS behind, then sure, it's a bad call. How you can come to that conclusion is beyond me. You have a set. I think it's pretty safe to assume that you are in fact going to be ahead a significant portion of the time to make this call not even close.

Maybe I give too much credit to other players, but if a guy has gone all in and already been called, how can you put both of them on a draw?

Let me turn the question around. Where in this hand have you shown ANY strength? The pot was limped. You called the flop bet. What should make them think that top pair, 2 pair, etc. isn't the best hand at the moment? If I was the original bettor, I'd guess both the callers have a spade. He likely assumes that YOU are the one drawing. You can't assume someone flopped a flush everytime 3 of a suit hits the board. I don't hate the flat call on the flop, but I'd be doing it with the intention of pushing a non-spade turn.

Tigerscott

I call

ChrisWinsor

For god sakes man! RAISE PRE FLOP!!!! At the flop, either go All in to push out high flush draws, or go against a flush (less likely) and see if you hit your outs for a full house. Should not have seen that turn...