Help me explain betting into a dead pot

stratola

Help me explain the logic to a buddy...

At my home game, we play 8 person sit and go style, top 3 get money, etc...

One person goes all in, two callers. Main pot is at 45 chips (everyone gets 80 to start)

Flop hits, both callers check, turn comes, one person checks the other bets about 15 chips, making the other person fold.

The bettor flips over nothing, meaning he was bluffing on his turn bet. Person all-in shows a low pair (3's) and wins the main pot and stays in the game. person who folded had a low pairing from the board (7's) but folded to the turn bet.

In a nutshell, the bluff made the winning hand fold, that would of knocked out the all-in person.

Can you help me word properly the theory of not bluffing into a dead pot (meaning no sidepot has been created until the bluff bet). Any articles online I can quote?

He won't believe me, and says "Im playing for myself and wanted to win the main pot"

Scott

Soup

Because you are gaining nothing by betting the winning hand out, yet you lose by keeping another player alive in the game. This becomes moreso an issue near bubble time.

pkrfce9

There are a lot of variables involved here. It is not just a simple rule. Search for 'dry side pot' here.

specialK

This is a HUGE problem online i have noticed of late... the best way to explain it is that the better (who is betting into the dry side pot) has nothing to gain from betting (ie. cahnces are they can't win the main pot because they are bluffing) it is also disadvantageous for them to keep the other player in the game.

HP_John

I hate it when someone bets into a dead pot. A few months ago a guy bluffed into a dead pot on the flop w/ another player all-in, I kindly tried to explain why he shouldn't in the future. The guy didn't say "whatever" but that was his attitude.

He was indifferent, even arguing that he believed his Q high was good enough to beat the all-in player (no, he had never played w/ the other guy, & the other guy was all-in preflop). I asked him how much he won by bluffing into that dead pot, he had no reply. What shocked me was he wasn't the only 1 at the table who saw nothing wrong w/ bluffing into a dead pot w/ another guy all-in. There were 2 other players who said they do the same thing & see nothing wrong w/ it. This was a live game, not online!

pkrfce9

I asked him how much he won by bluffing into that dead pot

Tell me this, how much did he lose by doing that?

I had a slightly different situation the other night. Two of us called the first guy's all in in a SNG. We checked it down to the river where I caught a straight. I bet half the pot and he called me with 2nd pair. Then he berated me for betting against him with someone all-in in a tourney. People definitely misapply this rule and I have no problem using that to my advantage.

There are a lot of valid reasons for betting into a dry side pot. Bluffing maybe not.

BigChrisEl

pkrfce9 wrote:

There are a lot of valid reasons for betting into a dry side pot. Bluffing maybe not.

You bring up a valid point because there are two points here:

Betting into a dry side Pot

and

Bluffing into a dry side pot.

Bluffing is a no no

specialK

pkrfce9 wrote:

There are a lot of valid reasons for betting into a dry side pot. Bluffing maybe not.

bluffing definately not, making a value bet into a sidepot is definately a good idea. I hate when people who think they know what is right dont and nag you for making a good bet or call...

pkrfce9

oh, there's reasons for bluffing, too. not all of them good...

Tigerscott

This is my biggest pet peeve online!

Don't care if it's the start of a tourny or down to 3 people.. If you got a chance to eliminate someone why bluff. The only time yo do this is if your after a sidepot!

AcidJoe

don't explain this to the morons because more than once I've been kept alive on the bubble due to this. I love it when I push with 33 get 2 callers and one guy goes into aggressive move with his AK after a flop of 5 8 9 raindow. the AK forces out the A8 suited and I take it down. I just say thank you.

sstar

Phil Gordon's Little Green Book explains it very well. You may want to show him that...page 170 or 172 or something. And I agree....someone bluffing into a dry side pot has to be the most INFURIATING thing I see on line. It's also the only "lesson" I try to teach people on line. I know acidjoe said earlier not to explain it...but I really think in the long run...especially in sit and go's, which I mostly play, it helps me more for newer players to know this. Though I do LOVE when I get saved by a moron bluffing into a dry side pot and my 55 holds up to keep me in the game!

sstar

ChrisWinsor

Tell him since it's tourny style top 3 make the money therefore it's to his advantage the more people who get knocked out. In those situations it is common knowldge between poker players to check it down to the river to maximize the chance of knocking out the player. Betting may occur, but it should only be when one player is so confident in his hand that he knows he has the all in beat and wants to win a bigger pot trying to get the third opponent to call a bet.

Dave Scharf

Generally I bet at a dry pot if I think I have the best hand.

Assume there are three of us in the pot. Me, All-in, and other guy (OG).

If I start with the best hand and check down, here is what can happen:

(1) I win (neither all-in or OG improve).
(2) all-in draws out on me (would have happened anyway) -- in this case I have either folded OG or win a side pot. No change to my result.
(3) OG draws out on me (this is REALLY irritating if a bet would have folded him).

So, if I start with the best hand I get it to eliminate option three.

Yes, sometimes I will eliminate OG in a circumstance in which he would have eliminated all-in but in most cases I am more interested in the chips than I am in eliminating all-in.

Meistro

Don't teach your opponents how to play, just take advantage of their foolishness and profit.