ak hand

This is a hand I played yesterday in the $10-20 limit game at Brantford:

I have AKo on the button. There are five limpers before I raise. One of the early limpers, a loose aggressive player (henceforth LAP), reraises. Most players call and I call. The flop comes Kd 4s 2s. LAP bets, one player calls, then the player directly before me, a good player I've played against many times who has a few tricks up his sleeve (henceforth GTP) raises. I reraise and LAP and GTP calls. The turn is the 7h. Both players check to me and I bet. LAP calls and GTP raises. What do you do?

Comments

  • The smooth call the of flop 3 bet followed by check-raising the field (inluding the flop 3 bettor) when a brick comes off smells like a set to me. On the other hand he might have a hand like KQ, KJs as well, or possibly 2 pair if he's a loose player. I can't see folding TPTK in such a massive pot without a huge read though. I'm likely calling this down and hoping a spade doesn't fall on the river. And cap that preflop, the LAP is just limp-raising a speculative hand to build a big pot, punish the other donks by capping.
  • Cap preflop, flop looks good, and call down you would have to be insane to fold in this monster pot and you also have a lot of outs against 2 pair. Sure you might be drawing dead against a set but you don't have to have the best hand or be drawing live here very often to show a profit.
  • I agree the set sounds possible but I would raise on the turn. I think LAP is on a flush draw and GTP is either sitting with KQ, QQ or AK. I don't think he is sitting with 44 or 22. So I go all the way down. If I lose, I lose.
  • I agree the set sounds possible but I would raise on the turn. I think LAP is on a flush draw and GTP is either sitting with KQ, QQ or AK.  I don't think he is sitting with 44 or 22. So I go all the way down. If I lose, I lose.

    Could he have AA or KK?
  • I think LAP is on a flush draw and GTP is either sitting with KQ, QQ or AK.  I don't think he is sitting with 44 or 22. So I go all the way down. If I lose, I lose.

    I think 3 betting might be spewing.  If LAP is on a flush draw, you're not getting rid of him. Assuming this is a "good tight player", one of the most obvious hands he should put you on is AK.  I don't see a good tight player check raising QQ here (and why wouldn't he have 3 bet preflop?). KQ is possible if he's super agressive, AK seems unlikely since he should have 3 bet preflop.  With 6 to the flop 44 or 22 is certainly possible since sets play well in such loose games. On the other hand, maybe he's the type to check raise the turn on a semi-bluff?  Kx of spades, 65s etc. might make that move with a big drawing hand I guess. I think you're behind more often than you're ahead though, and raising is going to probably cost you 4 big bets to get to showdown (if you're behind) as opposed to 2 if you go into calldown mode.  Just my 2 cents, maybe I'm weak-tight. :)
  • I pretty much completely agree with scooby here. I'm check-calling the turn and river to get to showdown... this guy couldn't really have any other hand... I would definately rule out AA KK QQ and AK just because of the action preflop... 44 or 22 sounds fairly probable just because he limped then called the bet preflop. Don't get me wrong, I'm not folding, but I'm in check-call mode and saving my extra 2 big bets... watts call me weak tight... i happen to think weak tight is right in this situation.
  • specialK wrote:
    watts call me weak tight...

    But I clearly agreed with you 4 posts up. Reraising is spewing.
  • SirWatts wrote:
    specialK wrote:
    watts call me weak tight...

    But I clearly agreed with you 4 posts up. Reraising is spewing.

    lol i don't read your posts, they tend to be too offensive... towards me... and other weak tight players... :D:D

    after rereading your post several times i don't find it offensive, and it seems that you say call down... just didn't notice before...
  • Looks like he has K7 (maybe even of spades) or a set, I think your beat.

    Wader
  • All right guys. I folded (like an idiot) and GTP won the pot with K6 of spades (no spade on the river). LAP had QQ.

    Obviously I shouldn't have folded in such a big pot, but I really thought I was beat and drawing thin or dead. A check-raise after a bet and call on the turn from a good player screamed extreme strength to me. Also, since I've played against this guy a lot, I figured he'd think I had at least KQ, and that I probably wouldn't fold it (it's not something I've done much before). However, I should have realized he could checkraise with a hand like the one he had.

    So I have some questions I'm hoping you guys can help me with. You see, I feel like I should be able to fold top pair top kicker in certain situations. So when should I fold a hand like this or should I? For example, if the turn card was a spade and the hand played out the same way, then should I have folded (I didn't have a spade)? And when would folding top pair top kicker always be a mistake?
  • So when should I fold a hand like this or should I?

    In general, you shouldn't be folding a hand this big in a big pot. And you probably need to re-evaluate your defination of "good tight player" if he's coldcalling an EP raise with trash like K6s. In general it becomes easier to get away from a hand like TPTK against predictiable (passive) opponents that have woken up when a draw hits (even more so if you're stuck between them). Don't try to be that guy that can make "a big laydown", it's -EV in LLHE.
  • Sorry... I am WAY behind in this forum. I am still trying to catch up. I am done with the Can Poker Championship on Global so I should have more time...
    This is a hand I played yesterday in the $10-20 limit game at Brantford:

    I have AKo on the button. There are five limpers before I raise. One of the early limpers, a loose aggressive player (henceforth LAP), reraises. Most players call and I call. The flop comes Kd 4s 2s. LAP bets, one player calls, then the player directly before me, a good player I've played against many times who has a few tricks up his sleeve (henceforth GTP) raises. I reraise and LAP and GTP calls. The turn is the 7h. Both players check to me and I bet. LAP calls and GTP raises. What do you do?

    I fold.

    Does he expect to get called? Yes, you have unloaded a TON of aggression in this hand. You are beat and drawing to five outs, two outs, or no outs. The other players calling a lot looks like a flush draw and that will give you even less outs.

    I am loathe to put down top pair at limit hold'em but this looks like a spot that I could.
  • For the exact reason's Dave just said, i'll never get into limit holdem... I would hate laying down your hand but i completely understand why you shoud... Yucky yucky LHE!
  • Cap preflop, turn is a call but the river is a clear fold unimproved. I would call if the board pairs. You are beat here 100% of the time. Also fold if at any time after this bet it is two to you.
  • Count the bets in the pot and explain to me how this is a good fold against a player capable of some trickery.
  • Count the bets in the pot and explain to me how this is a good fold against a player capable of some trickery.

    Amen brother, amen.

    Hero is getting something stupid like 14 or 15:1 on the turn. He has plenty of outs given the pot size against 2 pair.
    turn is a call but the river is a clear fold unimproved. I would call if the board pairs. You are beat here 100% of the time.

    A CLEAR fold UI getting like 15:1 or better with TPTK? Excuse me? You don't need to be good here very often to justify calling down. You are NOT beat 100% of the time here, it may be like 90%, but it goes to show how easily people may underestimate their odds of having the best hand. This pot is monstrous. Don't make mistakes that cost you the pot, make mistakes that cost you a bet or 2.
    For the exact reason's Dave just said, i'll never get into limit holdem... I would hate laying down your hand but i completely understand why you shoud... Yucky yucky LHE!

    I didn't realize this was going to turn into a LHE bash thread. You bash LHE because you don't understand it. I could easily say, "NLHE sucks because when a moron catches a 2 outer it costs you your stack, as opposed to a few bets". Comparing LHE to NLHE is like comparing Scrabble to Monopoly, they're 2 completely different games...saying one is better than the other is pretty pointless IMO, there are great things about both...
  • Don't make mistakes that cost you the pot, make mistakes that cost you a bet or 2.

    Although this is correct, I think that A LOT of players lose A LOT of money one and two bets at a time, just in case. If you are beat, fold. If there is a chance you are not beat, call. But do not get in the habit of routinely oversetimateing that chance that you have the best hand.
Sign In or Register to comment.