Mixing Up Big PP - Based on Opponent

-ANTE RIVER--ANTE RIVER-
in Brags, Beats & Variance
All hands Stars 180 Man SNG's ($4) - (showdown's whited out)

Hand 1: Villain is loose, aggressive, seeing a lot of flops and raising with nothing.
Still relatively early...in the last 10 hands, I have come over the top of Villain every time
we were both in the pot together (3 hands) on the turn or river after he has come out
firing and he has folded 2 out of 3.

Q - Where in this hand do you make your move to get all his chips in the middle?

PokerStars Game #4528807834: Tournament #22553909, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/04/05 - 12:04:01 (ET)
Table '22553909 14' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: biggbobb (1545 in chips)
Seat 2: -ANTE RIVER- (2960 in chips)
Seat 3: salmal3 (960 in chips)
Seat 4: Cpt. Molloy (2680 in chips)
Seat 5: nachee (1365 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: hogazz (1590 in chips)
Seat 7: omnivulture (405 in chips)
Seat 8: Krista-M (2225 in chips)
Seat 9: casinomike69 (4555 in chips)
nachee: posts small blind 25
hogazz: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to -ANTE RIVER- [As Ac]
omnivulture: folds
Krista-M: folds
casinomike69: folds
biggbobb: calls 50
-ANTE RIVER-: calls 50
salmal3: folds
Cpt. Molloy: folds
nachee: folds
hogazz: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qc 8c Td]
hogazz: checks
biggbobb: bets 50
-ANTE RIVER-: calls 50
hogazz: folds
*** TURN *** [Qc 8c Td] [Jd]
biggbobb: bets 200
-ANTE RIVER-: calls 200
*** RIVER *** [Qc 8c Td Jd] [Kh]
biggbobb: bets 200
-ANTE RIVER-: raises 200 to 400
biggbobb: raises 845 to 1245 and is all-in
-ANTE RIVER-: calls 845
*** SHOW DOWN ***
biggbobb: shows [Ad 7h] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
-ANTE RIVER-: shows [As Ac] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
biggbobb collected 1583 from pot
-ANTE RIVER- collected 1582 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3165 | Rake 0
Board [Qc 8c Td Jd Kh]
Seat 1: biggbobb showed [Ad 7h] and won (1583) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 2: -ANTE RIVER- showed [As Ac] and won (1582) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 3: salmal3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Cpt. Molloy (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: nachee (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: hogazz (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: omnivulture folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Krista-M folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: casinomike69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


Hand 2: Villain is weak, tight, ABC player. Has shown down a few hands, with cards he has represented so far. Pretty early going still.

Q – What do you do to get his chips without scaring him out of the pot?

PokerStars Game #4528880763: Tournament #22553909, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/04/05 - 12:17:35 (ET)
Table '22553909 12' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: -ANTE RIVER- (2422 in chips)
Seat 2: RONBRO (5490 in chips)
Seat 3: royrinnan (1415 in chips)
Seat 4: Jerfrey (1770 in chips)
Seat 5: POKERPECKA (3703 in chips)
Seat 6: texas Daless (3753 in chips)
Seat 7: CYRAN2001 (4089 in chips)
Seat 8: DeadShadow (3345 in chips)
Seat 9: HELLCATS (3615 in chips)
-ANTE RIVER-: posts small blind 50
RONBRO: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to -ANTE RIVER- [As Ac]
royrinnan: folds
Jerfrey: raises 300 to 400
POKERPECKA: folds
texas Daless: folds
CYRAN2001: folds
DeadShadow: folds
HELLCATS: folds
-ANTE RIVER-: calls 350
RONBRO: folds
*** FLOP *** [4c 7d 3h]
-ANTE RIVER-: bets 100
Jerfrey: calls 100
*** TURN *** [4c 7d 3h] [5h]
-ANTE RIVER-: bets 200
Jerfrey: calls 200
*** RIVER *** [4c 7d 3h 5h] [2h]
-ANTE RIVER-: bets 500
Jerfrey: calls 500
*** SHOW DOWN ***
-ANTE RIVER-: shows [As Ac] (a straight, Ace to Five)
Jerfrey: shows [Ah Kc] (a straight, Ace to Five)
-ANTE RIVER- collected 1250 from pot
Jerfrey collected 1250 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2500 | Rake 0
Board [4c 7d 3h 5h 2h]
Seat 1: -ANTE RIVER- (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (1250) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 2: RONBRO (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: royrinnan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jerfrey showed [Ah Kc] and won (1250) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 5: POKERPECKA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: texas Daless folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: CYRAN2001 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: DeadShadow folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: HELLCATS (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


Hand 3: Villain has limped with many hands with position. He has went off a couple
of times after being outdrawn. Has just one a couple good pots after an ugly beat
and is right back in it. Decent player, but seems to be by the book type. Just after first
break and I have just lost two hands in a short period of time to knock me out of top 10.

Q – I flop exactly what I am looking for and obviously want all his chips in the pot. Where would you make your move?

PokerStars Game #4529067559: Tournament #22553909, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/04/05 - 12:50:57 (ET)
Table '22553909 12' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: -ANTE RIVER- (5767 in chips)
Seat 2: RONBRO (5015 in chips)
Seat 3: framework (2780 in chips)
Seat 4: SiegurRos1 (5548 in chips)
Seat 5: POKERPECKA (10725 in chips)
Seat 6: violet651 (3155 in chips)
Seat 7: CYRAN2001 (6239 in chips)
Seat 8: DeadShadow (2932 in chips)
Seat 9: HarryL (12570 in chips)
-ANTE RIVER-: posts small blind 100
RONBRO: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to -ANTE RIVER- [Qc Qs]
framework: calls 200
SiegurRos1: folds
POKERPECKA: calls 200
violet651: folds
CYRAN2001: raises 600 to 800
DeadShadow: folds
HarryL: folds
-ANTE RIVER-: calls 700
RONBRO: folds
framework: folds
POKERPECKA: folds
*** FLOP *** [6c Qd 9d]
-ANTE RIVER-: checks
CYRAN2001: bets 1000
-ANTE RIVER-: calls 1000
*** TURN *** [6c Qd 9d] [Ts]
-ANTE RIVER-: checks
CYRAN2001: bets 1000
-ANTE RIVER-: raises 1600 to 2600
CYRAN2001: calls 1600
*** RIVER *** [6c Qd 9d Ts] [Kc]
-ANTE RIVER-: checks
CYRAN2001: bets 1839 and is all-in
-ANTE RIVER-: calls 1367 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CYRAN2001: shows [Jd Jc] (a straight, Nine to King)
-ANTE RIVER-: shows [Qc Qs] (three of a kind, Queens)
CYRAN2001 collected 12134 from pot
CYRAN2001 said, "sorry dude"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12134 | Rake 0
Board [6c Qd 9d Ts Kc]
Seat 1: -ANTE RIVER- (small blind) showed [Qc Qs] and lost with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 2: RONBRO (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: framework folded before Flop
Seat 4: SiegurRos1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: POKERPECKA folded before Flop
Seat 6: violet651 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: CYRAN2001 showed [Jd Jc] and won (12134) with a straight, Nine to King
Seat 8: DeadShadow folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: HarryL (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


Thanks for the input.

Comments

  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    I honestly don't know what to write here... none of these hands make sense to me. I would have been happy taking a decent chunk of their stack(s) rather than chopping each time... so some thoughts:

    1st hand:

    You're in mid-late position with the hand of hands.. I would raise... there's one caller in front of you already, and 3-4 people to act behind... I would (If I wanted to "slowplay") only raise maybe 2-3x the BB.

    Flop: Not a good flop, there's an unlikely straight (unless you're Pinhead), and the BB could have anything. There's also the flush draw. I wouldn't just call here, I would bet and think "I'd rather win this mid-sized pot safely than lose a big one". The raise in front of 50 is insulting to say the least, the pot is about 225, I would raise to at least 200, maybe 150. Just to at least see where you're at.

    Turn: two flush draws, 4 to a straight, and you have no information really... I think I'm beat here now if someone bets, but I call the 200 as well.

    River: Miracle, but a chop, no excitement.

    Hand 2:

    If he's that weak tight, and doesn't hit anything, he's not going to pay you off.. bottom line. If youhad re-raised pre-flop after he made a significant raise, you'd have gotten more outta him I feel. Of course, he was also calling with A high on the flop and turn, and then again, the lovely chop. Once again, he bet 25% of his stack pre-flop? I think he would have gone all in there.

    Hand 3:

    Raised already, I'm not against the pre-flop call.

    Flop:

    Two straight draws and a flush draw out there, and you have top set... I would have bet, but a check raise is okay if you expect him to the SCB (Standard continuation bet), and let him know he's beat (again, win mid size pot rather than lose a big one).

    Turn:

    Scary now... fills out someones straight possibility, if I was going to bet here, I'm all in. The 1600 raise is not a lot for a pot of 5200, and if you have gone all in, (+1367), you're doing your best to make him make mistakes. He may still have called but if you were wiliing to put in 3600 chips, then 4900 isn't much different.

    River:

    You're at the mercy of the cards, and you know you're beat.... but the 1367 is only an M of 4, so you've little choice.. I call too and cry about my decisions earlier in the hand.


    No offense meant in the post, I just think that we may play very different games...

    Mark
  • specialKspecialK
    Hand 1: I don't mind limping in preflop, but with a LAG in the BB I'm going to probably raise to 3x the BB total, just cause it gets more chips in the pot and a LAG is going to call you with a BIG range of hands. I would definately raise the flop just because there's three straight cards there and a flush draw. I'm not a big fan of slow playing a big pair against a LAG.
    Hand 2: Preflop I think you have to reraise here. Against a weak tight opponent i think a 4x the BB raise (which is about 1/4 of his stack) screams to me I'M WILLING TO GO ALL THE WAY WITH THIS. So yeah, with everyone folded to you and just the BB left to act flat calling this raise seems pretty pointless... I'm raising it up and expecting this guy to call or move in.
    Hand 3: I like the way you played this hand for the most part, preflop is good, flop is where it gets tricky... I think at this point with the "by the book" description of the villain you have to put him on AA, KK, or AKs. I might be tempted to find out on the flop with a minraise, either way i'm shoving on the turn.
  • specialKspecialK
    DrTyore wrote:
    Turn:

    Scary now... fills out someones straight possibility, if I was going to bet here, I'm all in. The 1600 raise is not a lot for a pot of 5200, and if you have gone all in, (+1367), you're doing your best to make him make mistakes. He may still have called but if you were wiliing to put in 3600 chips, then 4900 isn't much different.

    in a heads up pot with a "by the book" player i'm not going to put them on KJ, J8 or 78 with their reraise preflop... (and don't tell me you make the same play with 78 mark.) so right now a set of queens is good here in my mind, i'm not affraid of the straight, but you have to push...
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    specialK wrote:
    DrTyore wrote:
    Turn:

    Scary now... fills out someones straight possibility, if I was going to bet here, I'm all in. The 1600 raise is not a lot for a pot of 5200, and if you have gone all in, (+1367), you're doing your best to make him make mistakes. He may still have called but if you were wiliing to put in 3600 chips, then 4900 isn't much different.

    in a heads up pot with a "by the book" player i'm not going to put them on KJ, J8 or 78 with their reraise preflop... (and don't tell me you make the same play with 78 mark.) so right now a set of queens is good here in my mind, i'm not affraid of the straight, but you have to push...

    Hold on a sec, you don't put me on 78 if I raise preflop? Hahaha... poor Kyle, bring your big wallet tonight. :)

    Mark
  • specialKspecialK
    DrTyore wrote:
    specialK wrote:
    DrTyore wrote:
    Turn:

    Scary now... fills out someones straight possibility, if I was going to bet here, I'm all in. The 1600 raise is not a lot for a pot of 5200, and if you have gone all in, (+1367), you're doing your best to make him make mistakes. He may still have called but if you were wiliing to put in 3600 chips, then 4900 isn't much different.

    in a heads up pot with a "by the book" player i'm not going to put them on KJ, J8 or 78 with their reraise preflop... (and don't tell me you make the same play with 78 mark.) so right now a set of queens is good here in my mind, i'm not affraid of the straight, but you have to push...

    Hold on a sec, you don't put me on 78 if I raise preflop? Hahaha... poor Kyle, bring your big wallet tonight. :)

    Mark

    i said RE-RAISE not just open raise. if i couldn't put you on 78 when you open raised i'd have been broke long ago...
  • -ANTE RIVER--ANTE RIVER-
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    Mark - I agree that these three hands do look odd, lol. In each case I felt I had a good read on those involved in the hands.
    I was trying to play the player, more than the board in these cases.

    In hand 1 - I had an excellent read on the first limper and was willing to chase all others out after taking my chances on the flop
    if 2 or 3 or 4 others were in for ride. I was confident that the villain would call a pot sided bet on the flop if I needed to thin the heard.
    I ended up with him and a weak-tight player, who ended up jumping ship without a scare bet. I didn't even have to isolate the
    villain. There is no doubt the board was scary looking, especially after the turn, but based on the way the Villain had played the hand up to
    that point, I didn't think I had any reason to worry. I know free cards are a not a good idea, especially with that board, but I was willing to
    take a chance, knowing that if he even paired the board, he'd call me down on the river based on me running him over in the last 10 hands.
    The other advantage I get is advertising - and in hand 1, at a very good price. The hand ended up being so unusual, that the rest of the table
    has no idea whether or not I have a clue. Was I slow playing? If so, then it was pretty ugly (with the board) or do they have to wonder if
    I am crazy to continue to wait for a trap that deep into the hand.

    Maybe I shouldn't think this way in a $4 buy-in, especially when it's still pretty early.

    In hand 2, I was confident he had something and was really trying to drag him along, especially with that flop. I hadn't seen him play any
    suited connectors up to this point, and with rainbow I was certain it was safe to play the hand the way I did, against him. I agree with you
    that a preflop re-raise would have been a better play, based on my read. :)

    In hand 3, I did think he was simply using post flop continuation bets and wasn't too worried he was on a flush draw based on his initial raise.
    Also, I wasn't even concerned before the turn of a possible straight for the same reason. I do think moving all-in on the turn would have been
    a better play, but his betting made me feel like I was ahead and I actually thought he would fold unless he had AA or KK, which I was happy
    to take my chances on (assuming he had a possible 4 outs with one card to come). Another strange hand though, I agree. In this case, it being
    later in the tourney, again, I wonder if this is line of thinking is not going to work on a $4 buy-in. But, I guess it's cheaper to practice these things
    at low levels.


    Kyle - In hands 2 and 3 I definately think your suggestions are the correct way to play the player, based on the board. In hand 1, though, I do
    like to mix things up with big PP a ceratin % of the time, so for me seeing AA or KK early to mid position isn't an auto raise, even if there are 5 or 6
    to act behind me. To be honest, I'm not sure if that thinking has a positive EV over the long run, but it does provide an image at the table that
    I am capable of plays that aren't by the book and hope that the keen players at the table have picked up on that (or they think I really suck - who knows). :D

    Thanks,
    Ken
  • specialKspecialK
    -ANTE RIVER- wrote:
    so for me seeing AA or KK early to mid position isn't an auto raise, even if there are 5 or 6 players to act behind me

    I don't necessarily think that AA or KK should always be an auto raise in EP (like UTG or UTG+1), but I think you have to consider, in this situation, that there is a LAG in the BB and he will call your raise of 2-3x the BB with pretty much anything and he is so far behind he won't even know. Also, just another thing, as in hand 2 you didn't reraise with your AA, if you limp in EP or MP with AA or KK are you going to reraise if it gets raised behind you? IMHO there are only 2 ways to play a big PP's, it's raise or limp raise... limp raise i would only try if the table is full of fish and i was UTG or UTG+1, never MP or god forbid LP... flat calling with big pairs just isn't the way to go preflop. (this is all IMO)
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