Enormous pot...think I messed up...or not?

ScoobyDScoobyD
in Online Poker
Early at the table, not much reads, other than obviously this table was pretty juicy...

My question is whether or not you go ahead and raise the flop, since with the size of the pot everyone still has odds to chase any thin draw even for 2 bets. Or should I be waiting for the turn, hoping the limp capper will lead the turn again and then I can force the rest of the field to call 2 big bets cold (which should force out some weak draws like gutshots). Of course the other argument in a massive pot is that it's almost impossible to to "defend your hand" anyways, so you might as well just just pound away for value. Thoughts?

Oh ya, the hand in question...

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Ac, Kh.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (24.33 SB) 8s, Kc, 9h (6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (16.16 BB) 2c (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

River: (20.16 BB) Jh (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB folds, MP1 folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: 21.16 BB

Comments

  • TigerscottTigerscott
    yeah you have too

    you only have TPTK in a 6 way pot with a connected flop..
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Your flop raise may TECHNICALLY not protect your hand, but you can't pass up on making your opponents face two cold bets. Lots of players will unprofitably fold hand that are getting proper equity in that situation.

    Now, if the flop bet came from EP, then yes I'd only raise the turn.
  • MeistroMeistro
    CO's action is weird, with his limp cap preflop. In a monster pot like this one you want to try and win it at all costs, and that includes protecting your hand against gut shots and 2 pair / trips draws. I would wait til the turn to raise because I think it is very likely CO will bet again given his spastic action so far. This will often make someone incorrectly fold a hand like 910 or Q10 on the turn.
  • ScoobyDScoobyD
    Now, if the flop bet came from EP, then yes I'd only raise the turn.

    Interesting. To maximize your equity then? As you're facing an EP bet followed by a bunch of calls, I'd assume I now have zero chance of raising to knock people out in the hand, and would probably just pound the flop for value. What do you do if an ugly card like a 7, 8, 9, T, J, Q comes off on the turn? Or is this a raise for a free showdown?

    Incidently, how thin is the river bet into 3 players?
  • MeistroMeistro
    River bet is retardedly easy.
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Interesting. To maximize your equity then?

    If the bet comes from EP and you raise, you are definately giving away odds for everyone to call your flop bet and then check to you on the turn and giving them even more odds. Therefore, if I don't have the ability to face the majority of the table with two cold then I'd prefer to raise the turn, to get two big bets into the pot. If they all call, then the pot is bigger. If I get a few folds I'm happy too.
    What do you do if an ugly card like a 7, 8, 9, T, J, Q comes off on the turn?

    Assuming the action stayed the same, and the same player led out in EP, I'd stick with the raise on the turn but likely take the free showdown rather than risk the donk checkraise from the slowplayed straight (because you'd have to call).
    Incidently, how thin is the river bet into 3 players?

    Monster pot, lots of crying calls with far worse hands than yours. I'd say it's standard espeically when they check to you and the board isn't ultra scary.
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    Looks pretty standard to me, except for playing full ring limit on Stars, but I guess I can see why now. I knew the shorthanded games were pretty soft there but the full ring usually sucks. Anwyays nice hand.
  • ScoobyDScoobyD
    except for playing full ring limit on Stars, but I guess I can see why now.

    Haha, point taken. I can't remember the last time I'd actually played full ring on Stars to tell you the truth. Had some FPP to clear for an old bonus and just happened to spot a 3-6 game with like 40% of players seeing flop and avg pot of like 45 bucks, which is pretty much on par with a good table on Party. Mind you this was a weekend, so I doubt this is typical of Stars, but I've now reconsidered my aversion to full ring on Stars (just have to be selective in your tables).
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