Hand Analysis - JJ
Hand analysis means it wasn't a winner.
Would like to see opinions on this play. Low dollar buy charity tourney. Two tables left 3 from each go to the final table. 6 left at my table. I had struggled back from a low chip stack to nearly even with the top three.
Blinds 100/200 I have a stack worth ~4,000-5,000. I am UTG and I am dealt :jd :jh.
I raise it up to 500. All fold to the BB who puts me all in. I put him on Ax. I call. BB has :ac :kd.
Flop hits :as and rags. My other Jack doesn't show up. I pack up and go home.
I felt comfortable with the play I made.
1. Was my raise enough or too small?
2. Was I correct to call the all in?
Opinions?
:jh
Would like to see opinions on this play. Low dollar buy charity tourney. Two tables left 3 from each go to the final table. 6 left at my table. I had struggled back from a low chip stack to nearly even with the top three.
Blinds 100/200 I have a stack worth ~4,000-5,000. I am UTG and I am dealt :jd :jh.
I raise it up to 500. All fold to the BB who puts me all in. I put him on Ax. I call. BB has :ac :kd.
Flop hits :as and rags. My other Jack doesn't show up. I pack up and go home.
I felt comfortable with the play I made.
1. Was my raise enough or too small?
2. Was I correct to call the all in?
Opinions?
:jh
Comments
2) Likely would have called the all in as well, but would have really thought about it, since he had me outchipped
FYI. To avoid bias, I wouldn't post the outcome of the hand
As it stands, I don't think AK would have played differently if you'd raised more.
You can't just assume that you're going to get reraised all-in preflop and have to decide what to do every time
you make a raise.
If your normal raise is to 500 then raise to 500 (I think this is too small myself) but you don't want people to pick up
on the fact that you raise 3BB with any normal hand, and then come out firing with 5 or 6BB because you're afraid to
see a flop. I see so many raises like that and it is almost always AK or a pair like JJ-88
As far as calling the all-in, this would depend on my read of that player. If I thought he/she would only make this move
with AK, AA, KK, QQ then I fold the JJ, but if they are an aggressive player or I thought they would make a smaller reraise
with a bigger pair then I would probably call the all-in and assume they either have AK, AQ or a smaller pair.
Again, this all depends on what range of hands you think the BB would play this way.
Exactly what I'm saying. Even you concurred with it later in you post.
5xBB raise - be called by almost any mid to high pair, AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo maybe.
- raised usually by AA, KK, AK, maybe AQs. when this happens, you have to figure out what your opponent will raise a 5xBB bet with. You figure your opponent has AA or KK, you're a huge dog, fold to the reraise. You figure your opponent would raise on AK, AQ or something smaller, call. But if your opponent is known for making moves like this with trash, push all in. Usually they will have to have AA or KK, or AK and it's a race.
Don't think I would have played any differently, but hey, I don't win ever tournament either.
I was watching tv and the Full Tilt gang had a hand much like yours.
A guy UTG had 1010 and pushed all in to get called with KK in BB. They called that a common amateur mistake.
They replayed it with him raising 2.5 the blind then there was another caller with 88 and then BB pushed with his KK. It allowed him to fold which he did when he felt he was behind.
I think the your raise is fine (raising 4 or 5 times the BB may have gotten a week A off your back but AK was most likely not going anywhere)
After his push you have to put him on at least A Paint or better but probably not AA KK or QQ as his raise screams to I want the pot now. As Beanie said you take the race as you have the best of it.
I have also seen people limp with the JJ UTG to see what materializes after them either to trap a stealer (dangerous) or to possibly get away if the table goes crazy.
Where in my post did I say I thought open folding was a good idea? or simply pushing all-in?
If you think I did that please let me know where because that was not at all what I was trying to say
If you are talking about the third paragraph then that is what I would consider AFTER the push from the BB.
It seems like you are advocating folding JJ if you are not willing to get all-in preflop but IMO this is far too weak
a play to even consider it. If you will never raise a hand like JJ because you think there is a chance somebody
might push all-in and you'll have to decide something, that is a very flawed argument
I'm not saying you have to call the push after you raise, because I think JJ is a hand that you should be able to
get away from preflop depending on who reraises you. JJ is a hand that doesn't mind some action, but if you
open push for 20-25BB from UTG, what is going to call you? You will be no action from pretty much anything
but AA, KK, QQ, AK, maybe AQ, TT and a very small sample of hands. Now if you make a smaller, more reasonable
raise, you'll probably get action from a lot more pairs, Ax, random hands with 2 paint, and a lot of other hands
that you have a huge edge over preflop.
Yes, I know there is a chance that some of these hands will outflop you, but the huge edge you have preflop
will stay that way a lot of the time and you will gain the 3-4 BB from the preflop call. Also consider a hand like AT
which many players will call with, and get broke to you if the flop comes T high, but are much more likely to
fold if you simply push preflop
If you think there is some flaw in my thinking, let me know (this is open to anybody who is interested
open folding JJ is playing WAY too weak tight if you're simply worried somebody might push behind you.
i haven't read your analysis of the hand but i do think that your thinking is flawed pinhead
about the hand, you cannot open fold JJ UTG at a short handed table... that's just a ridiculous thought, and look at my signature.
so yeah, make your standard raise, 500, 800, whatever it may be and then i think you did the right thing by calling all in. though i've done it I wouldn't reccommend folding JJ pre flop at a short handed table.
I'd put him on A/K or A/Q probably but know that there is still a good chance he has underpockets making me a huge favourite.
Nice call better luck next time.
Throwing away the outliers I see two consensus building.
My raise was right at "my normal raise level"
and
I should have raised +/- 5x the BB.
Thanks for the help.
:jh