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Jay's Trip Report #4 (07/01/04)
I brought my "A" game and had a great session.
I sat down with $200 at a pretty loose table. Here's a hand I witnessed within the first half hour:
Maniac caps the betting preflop with 84o. Flop is 567. Is he a psychic or something? Anyways, the owner of a big pocket pair went on berating that maniac for the next half hour after that hand until he went broke and left. Anyways, I took advantage of this maniac the first couple of hands I played:
I pick up T8s in late position and limp in. I know what you're thinking, why am I playing this crap? But this hand has always been good to me, like Doyle Brunson and his T2, so I had to try it out. One of the blinds raises, and I stay in. The flop is 853, two hearts. It's checked to me, so I bet and there's 3-4 callers. The turn is a 2. I bet and everyone stays in. The river is a Q, and it's checked around. The blinds show AK and Ax and the rest muck, so my hand holds up. Phew.
I pick up AcJc in late position and raise, there's 3-4 callers. The flop is J22. I bet and no one drops out. The turn is an A. I bet and only one caller. The river is a K. I bet and take the pot.
I'm up almost $100 in the first two hands I played to the river. More hands:
I pick up JJ in the BB, I raise and all of the limpers call. The flop is Axx, I bet and there's 3-4 callers. Hmm. The turn is an A. It's checked all around. The river is a K. I check-call thinking no one has an A but lose to the maniac from above who had K2. Bad call, I know...
I change seats to sit to the left of the maniac.
I pick up AsTs in mid position and limp in. The flop was Ks4sXx. I bet and get 3-4 callers. The turn is my spade. I bet, get check-raised (haha), and re-raise. The river is a blank. I bet and get called by a guy with two pairs and a guy with QsJs (check-raiser, I don't blame him).
I pick up AsKc and raise from the button, there's 4-5 callers. The flop comes 9c8c8d. I raise a bet to knock out chasers and there's three others left. The turn is Ac. It's checked to me, so I bet of course, and there's two others left. The river is Qc. There's a bet to me, which is suspicious, so I just call. A lady who was playing QQ very softly (only called the whole time) took it down. This lady got QQ three other times in a span of a couple hours and made a set everytime!! It was incredible to witness.
I pick up TT in the BB, there's 6-7 limpers so I just check it to save a bet in case a bad flop comes up for me. The flop comes Txx, nice but there's two suits which worries me a bit. I check-raise and there's a few others left. The turn pairs one of the rags. I bet and get a couple callers. The river is a blank. I bet and get called by UTG who had AT.
I pick up 88 UTG and just limp in, there are several limpers. The flop is 8xx, two suits again. I check-raise a bet from mid position, and there's a few callers. The turn pairs the board. I bet and get one caller (chaser). I bet the river and he folds.
I pick up KK UTG and limp in, planning a trap. There's several limpers and I'm kicking myself, but then the BB raises. Yes!! I re-raise, and there's 3-4 others that see the flop. The flop is QT2. I raise a bet, get re-raised and just call because something seems fishy (3 bets altogether). The turn is a blank. The same betting pattern as before follows. Hmm, I know someone made a set here. The river is a blank. I just call one bet. One guy has T2(wtf) and the BB has TT for a set. The pot was close to $300. KK strikes again for me, in a negative way of course. I've lost a lot of monstrous pots with KK in limit play, they've busted me out of a lot of SNG's, and busted me out of the recent live tourney in Brantford. Argh. I'm never getting too attached to them again.
I get cold cards for a good 1-1.5 hours before I get a nice little run of hands:
I pick up As3s and limp in from late position. The flop comes two spades, it's checked to me and I bet. I make my flush on the turn, bet the turn and river to take the pot.
I pick up Ac8c and limp in from mid position. The flop comes Axx. I bet and get a few callers. The turn is an A. I bet and get one caller. The river is a blank. I bet, get called and take the pot.
I pick up JT and limp in from mid-late position. The flop is T8x. I bet and get a couple callers. The turn is a blank, same betting pattern. The river is a K of a third suit. Check-check, and I beat a pair of 8's.
Then for a couple dealers (one hour), I get colds cards. Here's another run of good hands:
I pick up KQ in late position and raise, there's 4-5 callers. The flop is JTx. It's checked to me and I bet, 2-3 callers. The turn is a 9. I raise a bet in front of me and it's heads up. The river is an 8. I bet and beat 99.
I pick up JJ in the CO and raise, there's 4-5 callers. I make my set on the flop. Checked to me, I bet and get a couple callers. I bet the turn and river, but there's no caller at the end.
I pick up TT in early position and limp in, there's a raise and I call. The flop is KQJ rainbow. I check-call. The turn is a T. Now I know at least one of these guys has an A but I have the pot odds to call with my set hoping that the board pairs, so I call a bet. The river is a blank. Checks all around and two of them have an A (AK and A4). I think I played it right, it just didn't work out for me.
Here's the last hand I played for the night:
I pick up AA in the BB, there's 7-8 limpers and I raise, most of them stay in. The flop is J high, two suits. I bet and get 3-4 callers. The turn is a blank. I bet and there's a couple callers. The river is an A. I bet and get one caller. I showed, and he mucked. This pot put me over $400, which was my goal for the evening.
I sat through one more orbit until the BB reached me and I left with $445, up $245 in about 10 hours. It felt great to have a solid winning session after three consecutive losing ones. I liked the way I played tonight. I was patient and I waited for my hands instead of playing marginal starting hands. I folded when I knew I was beat or drawing dead and only lost about 10-15% of my showdowns, which is a big improvement from my previous sessions.
My Dad offered to stake me for the $10/$20 game, we each put in $200 for me to sit down with $400. I might take the offer to give it a shot to see how I do against players from a higher limit. Obviously, I'm expecting less junk hand players and chasers. Can anyone give me an idea of how the players are at the $10/$20? Thanks.
Y'all know the usual with comments and suggestions....
I sat down with $200 at a pretty loose table. Here's a hand I witnessed within the first half hour:
Maniac caps the betting preflop with 84o. Flop is 567. Is he a psychic or something? Anyways, the owner of a big pocket pair went on berating that maniac for the next half hour after that hand until he went broke and left. Anyways, I took advantage of this maniac the first couple of hands I played:
I pick up T8s in late position and limp in. I know what you're thinking, why am I playing this crap? But this hand has always been good to me, like Doyle Brunson and his T2, so I had to try it out. One of the blinds raises, and I stay in. The flop is 853, two hearts. It's checked to me, so I bet and there's 3-4 callers. The turn is a 2. I bet and everyone stays in. The river is a Q, and it's checked around. The blinds show AK and Ax and the rest muck, so my hand holds up. Phew.
I pick up AcJc in late position and raise, there's 3-4 callers. The flop is J22. I bet and no one drops out. The turn is an A. I bet and only one caller. The river is a K. I bet and take the pot.
I'm up almost $100 in the first two hands I played to the river. More hands:
I pick up JJ in the BB, I raise and all of the limpers call. The flop is Axx, I bet and there's 3-4 callers. Hmm. The turn is an A. It's checked all around. The river is a K. I check-call thinking no one has an A but lose to the maniac from above who had K2. Bad call, I know...
I change seats to sit to the left of the maniac.
I pick up AsTs in mid position and limp in. The flop was Ks4sXx. I bet and get 3-4 callers. The turn is my spade. I bet, get check-raised (haha), and re-raise. The river is a blank. I bet and get called by a guy with two pairs and a guy with QsJs (check-raiser, I don't blame him).
I pick up AsKc and raise from the button, there's 4-5 callers. The flop comes 9c8c8d. I raise a bet to knock out chasers and there's three others left. The turn is Ac. It's checked to me, so I bet of course, and there's two others left. The river is Qc. There's a bet to me, which is suspicious, so I just call. A lady who was playing QQ very softly (only called the whole time) took it down. This lady got QQ three other times in a span of a couple hours and made a set everytime!! It was incredible to witness.
I pick up TT in the BB, there's 6-7 limpers so I just check it to save a bet in case a bad flop comes up for me. The flop comes Txx, nice but there's two suits which worries me a bit. I check-raise and there's a few others left. The turn pairs one of the rags. I bet and get a couple callers. The river is a blank. I bet and get called by UTG who had AT.
I pick up 88 UTG and just limp in, there are several limpers. The flop is 8xx, two suits again. I check-raise a bet from mid position, and there's a few callers. The turn pairs the board. I bet and get one caller (chaser). I bet the river and he folds.
I pick up KK UTG and limp in, planning a trap. There's several limpers and I'm kicking myself, but then the BB raises. Yes!! I re-raise, and there's 3-4 others that see the flop. The flop is QT2. I raise a bet, get re-raised and just call because something seems fishy (3 bets altogether). The turn is a blank. The same betting pattern as before follows. Hmm, I know someone made a set here. The river is a blank. I just call one bet. One guy has T2(wtf) and the BB has TT for a set. The pot was close to $300. KK strikes again for me, in a negative way of course. I've lost a lot of monstrous pots with KK in limit play, they've busted me out of a lot of SNG's, and busted me out of the recent live tourney in Brantford. Argh. I'm never getting too attached to them again.
I get cold cards for a good 1-1.5 hours before I get a nice little run of hands:
I pick up As3s and limp in from late position. The flop comes two spades, it's checked to me and I bet. I make my flush on the turn, bet the turn and river to take the pot.
I pick up Ac8c and limp in from mid position. The flop comes Axx. I bet and get a few callers. The turn is an A. I bet and get one caller. The river is a blank. I bet, get called and take the pot.
I pick up JT and limp in from mid-late position. The flop is T8x. I bet and get a couple callers. The turn is a blank, same betting pattern. The river is a K of a third suit. Check-check, and I beat a pair of 8's.
Then for a couple dealers (one hour), I get colds cards. Here's another run of good hands:
I pick up KQ in late position and raise, there's 4-5 callers. The flop is JTx. It's checked to me and I bet, 2-3 callers. The turn is a 9. I raise a bet in front of me and it's heads up. The river is an 8. I bet and beat 99.
I pick up JJ in the CO and raise, there's 4-5 callers. I make my set on the flop. Checked to me, I bet and get a couple callers. I bet the turn and river, but there's no caller at the end.
I pick up TT in early position and limp in, there's a raise and I call. The flop is KQJ rainbow. I check-call. The turn is a T. Now I know at least one of these guys has an A but I have the pot odds to call with my set hoping that the board pairs, so I call a bet. The river is a blank. Checks all around and two of them have an A (AK and A4). I think I played it right, it just didn't work out for me.
Here's the last hand I played for the night:
I pick up AA in the BB, there's 7-8 limpers and I raise, most of them stay in. The flop is J high, two suits. I bet and get 3-4 callers. The turn is a blank. I bet and there's a couple callers. The river is an A. I bet and get one caller. I showed, and he mucked. This pot put me over $400, which was my goal for the evening.
I sat through one more orbit until the BB reached me and I left with $445, up $245 in about 10 hours. It felt great to have a solid winning session after three consecutive losing ones. I liked the way I played tonight. I was patient and I waited for my hands instead of playing marginal starting hands. I folded when I knew I was beat or drawing dead and only lost about 10-15% of my showdowns, which is a big improvement from my previous sessions.
My Dad offered to stake me for the $10/$20 game, we each put in $200 for me to sit down with $400. I might take the offer to give it a shot to see how I do against players from a higher limit. Obviously, I'm expecting less junk hand players and chasers. Can anyone give me an idea of how the players are at the $10/$20? Thanks.
Y'all know the usual with comments and suggestions....
Comments
One is usualy the result of the other.
10/8s is not a bad hand in a multi-way pot. You cant just sit around waiting for Aces all day. Nice hand.
A raise with JJ from either blind in a multi-way pot is not the greatest idea ive ever heard. You will run into trouble as the chances are that by the turn there will be a "scare card" out there and you might give away the pot as a result. The second Ace on board actualy HELPED your hand so if your gonna pay off anyway you might as well bet the turn and see if your beat since a raise will make it an easy fold.
I raise to get out the chasers? at this point YOU are one of the ones chasing and maybe in a ton of trouble.
This hand was played PERFECT. You should think of playing JJ the same as you played your tens next time.
The 10/20 is pretty close to the same skill level as 5/10 IMO. You seem to be playing well and have some knowledge so I would just stick with 5/10 until you are comfortable and built up a little of a bankroll. Be patient because solid play ALWAYS wins over the long run so it wont be long until you are moving up in limits.
As I've mentioned before, I think this play is far too fancy for low-limit:
How do I know this probably won't work? The previous 7 hands (in fact, all but hand #1 where the maniac had 84o and raised) in the report have no-one other than you raising pre-flop. The limp-reraise play is only worth trying if you can almost *count* on someone raising behind you.
The secondary disaster (but an important one) that this caused was allowing a hand like T2 to get involved here. It's much more likely that a T2 will call 1 bet and then 2 more cold, than calling 2 cold in the first place. Someone who is bad enough to play T2 for 1 bet is also bad enough to think that they already have 1 bet "invested" in the pot and should call 2 more bets cold.
Also, the limp-reraise play is *much* worse when it fails for KK than for AA. While limping in with AA is not typically a disaster, with KK pre-flop, an unsuccessful limp-reraise is a nightmare. You simply *must* make bare Aces fold or pay the extra bet pre-flop.
I'd like to re-iterate a couple of ComaU's excellent points.
With the JJ, I'd check the BB, and check-fold the flop. You missed. This isn't even close to a good flop for JJ. I do agree with his idea that *if* you get to that turn card, you should certainly bet out, both for the reason he suggested, and also because you may now very well get paid off by a skeptic with a lower two pair.
With the AK raising pre-flop is great, but I'd prefer check-folding the 899 two-suited flop. Again, you missed. To quote Dave (but in a non-taunting style), "there's no shame in folding" after having raised pre-flop.
Well played with the TT hand, and a nice point from ComaU about TT being a very similar hand to JJ.
A nice offer, but not enough to play the $10-$20 I think. Something like $800-$1,000 seems more appropriate. As ComaU said, make sure you're a *long term* winner at $5-$10 before considering moving up. I'd personally probably wait until I was ahead roughly $2,000 at the $5-$10 before moving up in limits to $10-$20. Have patience... both the $5-$10 and $10-$20 (and higher) games will be there for quite a while.
ScottyZ
I pick up 32 in the BB and check it. The flop is T32, two clubs. I bet and get some callers. The turn is a club. It's checked all around. The river is a 2, I bet, get a couple callers and take the pot.
I pick up 7c5c in the BB and check it. The flop comes two clubs, I bet and get some callers. The turn is a club. I bet and a couple call. The river is a blank. I bet and my small flush holds up.
A club falling on the turn IS a scare card but none the less you should bet. By checking you are giving a variety of losing hands a chance to catch up to your now VERY vulnerable holding. Someone holding a lone ten has a free ride to hope he/she either hits their kicker or the turn card is paired on the river either way making them a winner. Also someone with a single club that may have folded to your turn bet will now draw for free and now belive that the club they hold is good if hit.
Failing to bet when a scare card falls can seriously change your results over the long haul. With all the bets you miss and all the times you allow someone trailing to draw for free you will lose money.
I realize it is hard but to quote Bob Ciafonne (sp?) "Grit your teeth and bet the turn! That card can be as scary for your opponent as it is for you."
I figured that I'd be saving a big bet if I just check it, rather than betting and possibly being raised by someone who could've hit their flush. So if I check and someone I feel has made their flush bets, I can fold without losing any money. In hindsight, I should've bet the turn obviously. I'm not used to playing this kind of hand so I was extra cautious with it.
There are a lot of non-flush hands that one of your opponents would bet on the turn if it was checked to them, but would probably not raise you with if you had bet yourself. If you frequently check and fold 2 pair when the board goes three-suited on the turn (facing no flop raise), you're going to end up costing yourself the pot too often I think.
This probably seems very counter intuitive at first. We (ComaU and I) are suggesting that (in most cases) a bet-fold would be a good play, but a check-fold would not be? Yes, because betting out really defines your opponent's hand if he does raise with it.
I've actually had a lot of low-limit opponents critisize me for making this sort of play, to the effect of, "How can you bet and fold on the same round?" Clearly they are put off that I didn't allow them to chase the river card for just one more bet, regardless of what hand they or anyone currently has. My stock response: "I was just bluffing." :cool:
Anyway, if you don't like all of those fancy lines of thinking, the simpler but still very strong idea of not giving a free river card to a single flush card in the hole is actually enough to make this hand worth betting on the turn. I'm not pointing this out because I don't think the previous reasoning is right, but I just wanted to also give a non-fancy reason for the play to stick with my general "you don't need to be tricky in low-limit" theme.
ScottyZ