Same hand...what do you do?

WolffhoundWolffhound
in Brags, Beats & Variance
Two tourney hands...an hour apart...one stars, one Party. Both low buy in (ie 3.00)
Tournies.


*********** # 47 **************
PokerStars Game #4400741965: Tournament #21579302, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/03/24 - 19:57:07 (ET)
Table '21579302 83' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: pastran (3120 in chips)
Seat 2: mellon1234 (3880 in chips)
Seat 3: 123davi (1618 in chips)
Seat 4: mmillerce (425 in chips)
Seat 5: CrashWilly (3785 in chips)
Seat 6: Wolffhound (1640 in chips)
Seat 7: remowilliams (4085 in chips)
Seat 8: ranchito9 (3130 in chips)
Seat 9: m21b21 (5557 in chips)
CrashWilly: posts small blind 50
Wolffhound: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Wolffhound [7s Kd]
remowilliams: folds
ranchito9: raises 100 to 200
m21b21: folds
pastran: folds
mellon1234: folds
123davi: calls 200
mmillerce: folds
CrashWilly: folds
Wolffhound: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [7d Jc Kh]

So...now what do you do? You have moved tables a couple of times...slow play? Or win pot now?




2nd tourney....


***** Hand History for Game 3813515708 *****
0/0 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 21347779) - Fri Mar 24 20:21:24 EST 2006
Table Regular(641195) Table 118 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: ronsmother (5357)
Seat 2: bogeystarr (1284)
Seat 3: jyoung069 (2920)
Seat 4: almagrace (4238)
Seat 5: Wolffhound (2960)
Seat 6: polerface (1983)
Seat 7: xxxxJNRxxxx (2840)
Seat 8: dabib44 (2418)
Seat 9: bellavegas (3000)
Seat 10: EJayK (3000)
almagrace posts small blind (20)
Wolffhound posts big blind (40)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Wolffhound [ Kh, 7c ]
polerface calls (40)
xxxxJNRxxxx calls (40)
dabib44 calls (40)
bellavegas folds.
EJayK folds.
ronsmother calls (40)
bogeystarr calls (40)
jyoung069 folds.
almagrace calls (20)
Wolffhound checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7d, Kc, Js ]

and now....

Comments

  • Flint BonesFlint Bones
    I would probably check raise this pot and hope the original bettor tries to go over the top. If it is checked around on the flop then I bet on the turn. Nothing too fancy.
  • drujuwontondrujuwonton
    1st situation -- check-raise on the flop, if you get to the turn put in a pot-sized bet if a non-scare card comes.

    2nd situation -- bet right out, eliminate most of the field, watch out for those that like jack-king-off (or suited) :D
  • westside8westside8
    1st hand - I like the CR all-in line. If you check with the intention of CR, you are going to be pot-commiting yourself, and the original raiser will probably call with any semi-decent hand on the turn when you push (and the push will be somewhere between 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot given the chip stacks).

    2nd hand - Definitely make a pot-size bet, or even overbet with the intention to narrow the field and re-evaluate on the turn depending on how many callers and what card comes.
  • SOSSOS
    Any money you make with this hand is gravy since you would have folded pre-flop to any 3BB raise either time.
    Slow playing is for guys who like to tell bad beat stories.
    bet your hand, win some money...next
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    1=CR all-in.
    2= Make a decent sized lead.
  • ZithalZithal
    Responding before I see the other answers
    Wolffhound wrote:
    Two tourney hands...an hour apart...one stars, one Party. Both low buy in (ie 3.00)
    Tournies.

    *********** # 47 **************

    Dealt to Wolffhound [7s Kd]
    ranchito9: raises 100 to 200
    123davi: calls 200
    Wolffhound: calls 100
    *** FLOP *** [7d Jc Kh]

    So...now what do you do? You have moved tables a couple of times...slow play? Or win pot now?

    Nothing too scary about this flop. though top and bottom 2 pair seem to always get cracked for me. I'd let the original better make a bet, then push. Being in a $3 tourney, I have to expect that you're currently ahead the vast majority of the time, so I'd slow play a little here.
    Wolffhound wrote:
    2nd tourney....


    ***** Hand History for Game 3813515708 *****
    Wolffhound posts big blind (40)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to Wolffhound [ Kh, 7c ]
    polerface calls (40)
    xxxxJNRxxxx calls (40)
    dabib44 calls (40)
    ronsmother calls (40)
    bogeystarr calls (40)
    almagrace calls (20)
    Wolffhound checks.
    ** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7d, Kc, Js ]

    and now....

    I hate this situation far worse than the above due to how early and low the blinds are. Bet too low and you'll get everyone chasing everything. You want people out so I'd probably bet just over pot (to 300) and play it carefully if I get any callers.
  • WolffhoundWolffhound
    SOS wrote:
    Any money you make with this hand is gravy since you would have folded pre-flop to any 3BB raise either time.
    Slow playing is for guys who like to tell bad beat stories.
    bet your hand, win some money...next

    This isn't a bad beat story, its a ? that came up twice in 1/2 hr I think I got them both wrong.

    First Hand-

    *** FLOP *** [7d Jc Kh]
    Wolffhound: checks
    ranchito9: bets 200
    123davi: folds
    Wolffhound: raises 400 to 600
    ranchito9: calls 400
    *** TURN *** [7d Jc Kh] [Qh]
    Wolffhound: bets 840 and is all-in
    ranchito9: calls 840
    *** RIVER *** [7d Jc Kh Qh] [Qs]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Wolffhound: shows [7s Kd] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
    ranchito9: shows [Qd Ah] (three of a kind, Queens)
    ranchito9 collected 3530 from pot
    Fumanchu70 is connected
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 3530 | Rake 0
    Board [7d Jc Kh Qh Qs]
    Seat 1: pastran folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: mellon1234 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: 123davi folded on the Flop
    Seat 4: mmillerce (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: CrashWilly (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: Wolffhound (big blind) showed [7s Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens
    Seat 7: remowilliams folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: ranchito9 showed [Qd Ah] and won (3530) with three of a kind, Queens
    Seat 9: m21b21 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

    Most agreed to CR, given chipstack, I realize it should have been all-in.  It may still have been called and I would have still lost, but, sounds like the CR-all in was the better play.
    Short sighted on the pot odds to my all in on the turn. 


    Second Hand


    ** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 7d, Kc, Js ]
    almagrace checks.
    Wolffhound bets (225)
    polerface calls (225)
    xxxxJNRxxxx folds.
    dabib44 folds.
    ronsmother folds.
    bogeystarr folds.
    almagrace calls (225)
    ** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 6s ]

    Ok, I fired as suggested, 2 callers, so I thinned it out a bit.  Now pot is 955, Turn is 6s...you are first to act...bet size?

    P.S. thanks for the responses so far, much apprecaited.
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    Given that he made such a small bet the smaller checkraise is fine in hand 1. Hand 2 I think you need to bet close to the size of the pot on the turn.
  • Flint BonesFlint Bones
    Hand 1 - Wow, nothing you could have done there.

    Hand 2 - I would make a 1/2 pot size bet with the intention of all in on the river.
    Another option is to Check Raise the turn. One of the two will bet. I prefer the bet though.
  • BigSickBigSick
    The first situation: I would not call that garbage hand.
    The second situation: I bet the Pot.
  • SOSSOS
    Wolffhound wrote:
    SOS wrote:
    Slow playing is for guys who like to tell bad beat stories.
    This isn't a bad beat story, its a ? that came up twice in 1/2 hr I think I got them both wrong.

    Apologies Wolf, I wasn't implying that you were telling a bad beat story, my comment was about slow playing in general.
    I guess I could be talked into the CR route, but would hate to take the chance of a check behind for a free card.
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    My thoughts... without peeking at others.
    Two tourney hands...an hour apart...one stars, one Party.  Both low buy in (ie 3.00)
    Tournies.

    Phil Ivey is not in the field. Basic play will win the day.
    Table '21579302 83' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: pastran (3120 in chips)
    Seat 2: mellon1234 (3880 in chips)
    Seat 3: 123davi (1618 in chips)
    Seat 4: mmillerce (425 in chips)
    Seat 5: CrashWilly (3785 in chips)
    Seat 6: Wolffhound (1640 in chips)

    -- IN THE BB with Kd7s and 16 x BB.
    Seat 7: remowilliams (4085 in chips)
    Seat 8: ranchito9 (3130 in chips)
    Seat 9: m21b21 (5557 in chips)
    CrashWilly: posts small blind 50
    Wolffhound: posts big blind 100
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Wolffhound [7s Kd]
    remowilliams: folds
    ranchito9: raises 100 to 200
    m21b21: folds
    pastran: folds
    mellon1234: folds
    123davi: calls 200
    mmillerce: folds
    CrashWilly: folds
    Wolffhound: calls 100
    *** FLOP *** [7d Jc Kh]

    I think your call is fine. Beware, of course a bad flop or a margfinal flop. This is neither, however, this is a touchdown.
    So...now what do you do?  You have moved tables a couple of times...slow play?  Or win pot now?

    I do not want to do either. I want to figure out how to get every one of my chips into the pot and get called.
    0/0 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 21347779)  - Fri Mar 24 20:21:24 EST 2006
    Table Regular(641195) Table 118 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 1: ronsmother (5357)
    Seat 2: bogeystarr (1284)
    Seat 3: jyoung069 (2920)
    Seat 4: almagrace (4238)
    Seat 5: Wolffhound (2960)
    Seat 6: polerface (1983)
    Seat 7: xxxxJNRxxxx (2840)
    Seat 8: dabib44 (2418)
    Seat 9: bellavegas (3000)
    Seat 10: EJayK (3000)
    almagrace  posts small blind (20)
    Wolffhound  posts big blind (40)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to Wolffhound [ Kh, 7c ]
    polerface calls (40)
    xxxxJNRxxxx calls (40)
    dabib44 calls (40)
    bellavegas folds.
    EJayK folds.
    ronsmother calls (40)
    bogeystarr calls (40)
    jyoung069 folds.
    almagrace calls (20)
    Wolffhound checks.
    ** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 7d, Kc, Js ]

    Same answer. Scoot the loot.

    OK... now to peak.
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    Sorry, I didn't do a good job of suggesting what
  • Dave ScharfDave Scharf
    Sorry, I didn't do a good job of suggesting what I would do.

    In both cases, I bet out.

    In big bet poker I have a basic approach... If I want to win all of my opponent's chips I need to get him pot committed (note that I am using this in an emotional sense). That means I have to make the pot interesting. Generally, this is best served by betting out. If I want to define my hand, it is also best to bet out.

    I check raise A LOT less than most people. I have been reviewing this in my own game lately, though. I wonder if I should not be check raising more often.
  • WolffhoundWolffhound
    Thanks all for the replies...
    i guess my CR on the first hand was too small, seconds later on the 2nd hand I basically shit my pants went all-in 26**, whet for the "overbet"
    and got no callers and won the pot on the turn.
  • ChrisWinsorChrisWinsor
    1st hand, raise don't check raise. You were in the big blind, you wanna bet out into the raiser who has roughly double your chips hoping he raised with a good hand, AK, AA, KQ, and will then reraise you thinking his hand is the best, and then you go all in. He might also thinking you're representing a hand that you don't have since you are in the bb, or even still mgiht call your bet with something like AQ, A10, hoping to hit the over card or the straight.

    Second hand you have what like 5 other people in the hand, you must bet out with a nice sized bet. Get the junk to fold, mabye get some loose calls with draws or send pair or mabye even get reraised with a KJ, K10 which online noobies do oh so often.
  • Big EBig E
    Hand 1 I fold...playing K7 to a raise can be costly if you get a marginal flop, more often then not the flop will miss you and it will be call-fold so why not save a bet? As Mr. Scharf said though...this is a touchdown and you want all your chips in the middle..and you got what you wanted.....sucks he hit runner-runner to take you out dude, really sucks! I don't think you could have done anything differently post flop..pre-flop tho, I fold.


    Sometimes I wonder if Stars rivers you just to teach you a lesson?

    Hand 2, good bet on the flop, I'd continue with a pot sized turn bet.
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